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[java] Java Programming, is there a future?

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Hi all, so I'm thinking about taking a couple of courses in Java development but I've been out of the programming loop for a while. Is there still a demand or future demand for Java developers or development or is it getting replaced? In what area do you think Java will be used most? Appreciate any answers!

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There's a hell of a demand, specially for distributed enterprise applications. If you're a Java man, you're sure to be successful on the market. There's also a similar demand for .NET programmers, but I would bet on Java if I were you.

Game-wise, unfortunately, you're limited to mobile devices. Consoles do not support Java as of now, and who knows if they ever will. The PC gaming market has a better chance, though; Since Java is portable, and good enough for game programming, the advent of portability might give you some room as an indie developer. I'm not one to comment on this market, though.

Son Of Cain

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If you want my opinion, I can see Java being strong-armed by C# over the next few years, after which Java will die a slow, agonizing death.

but don't let my speculation stop you. :D

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Java game development appears to be utterly dead outside of the cell phone arena. Yes, a few poor souls are clutching onto it desperately, and doing decently nice stuff, but it's too much effort for too little work.

The real fight is Java vs .NET in the enterprise and business apps sectors. I suspect it'll eventually balance out at some level with the two being roughly level (50/50, 40/60, whatever). Things will probably end up with .NET being used in the windows arena and Java being used elsewhere -- not because of any inherent limitation of either platform but because of the idiotic stigmas that the market and the people in the markets have.

At the end of the day, there's really one answer. As with any type of development, anybody who knows only one language is useless. If you only know Java, you're a terrible programmer, end of story. (Same goes for any language.) Learn C#, learn C++, learn Python, learn Ruby, whatever. Be dynamic and flexible; a new environment should not be a culture shock but a half day of learning, followed by normal productivity.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
i think java has a future in web developement.

jsps, as an alternative to php, are quite useful.
also, java-applets cannot be replaced by anything else in the near future.

in application developement, java imo doesn't have a future.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Hi,

I have worked with both Java and C#. Both of those languages have their own advantages. Java has a great future in Web development / Database Applications and Tools.
Indeed, have a look to frameworks like Eclipse-based ones (Rich Client Platform (RCP), TPTP, Birt, ...).
I personally use these ones to build my own tools (in game dev field and others) and I know by experience that if I had to some of this work in another language it takes me months instead of weeks.

My advice : Learn Java, Learn other modern programming languages and think about what you need before you get it done...

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Don't let the previous posts scare you away from Java, its a good language and improving with every revision. Flip the newspaper and you will see the demand for Java Developers, look around and you will see big companies using it.

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As a developer of enterprise Java applications, I have the impression that .Net might have a future as a platform for Windows only desktop applications as a technically superior alternative to old Visual Basic and MFC, while for business software it has a place and a future only
a) in Microsoft's marketing propaganda and products
b) in theory (good programming languages like C# are not enough)
c) among Microsoft fanboys (including customers, consultants and individual programmers).

.Net is tied to Windows, and Windows (apart from being an inadequate server operating system in general) is tied to low-end servers.
Large and important IT infrastructure normally runs on overpriced high availability and high performance servers running Linux, Solaris and other UNIX variants or IBM z/OS, CICS and the like.
In this kind of environment Java with its very capable application servers, compiled languages like C++ and COBOL, and all sorts of mature scripting languages (shell, Perl, Python...) are readily available and nobody needs Microsoft's proprietary and inferior alternatives.

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to all those who are not yet of a know and read ^, before forming an opinion please do some research on the matter, on these forums and on google as well. J2EE, .NET are good terms to start off with.

sigmaent : Learn how to program and abstract concepts. Java or no it does not matter. When the time comes you will find that you are ready for whatever language is in vogue. You are able to ride many bikes and not just your first bicylce - even if it is where you learned first.

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Java will be around for a long time. Sun has JVMs on multiple platforms that it maintains itself, Microsoft depends on third parties to provide access to .Net outside it's own operating system products.

Because many servers are still *nix, Java still has active web and enterprise things - and that's what Sun concentrates on. As far as game dev goes - Sun doesn't really promote that side of things. Game servers may be, but game clients? Outside websites and mobile phones, that doesn't seem to happen so much.

I think having Java on your CV is a good thing, but as most universities do that now as standard it's a very samey thing. I'm sure some employers would prefer you know Java + something else unmanaged - just to prove you can think that way.

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
i think java has a future in web developement.

jsps, as an alternative to php, are quite useful.
also, java-applets cannot be replaced by anything else in the near future.

in application developement, java imo doesn't have a future.


The only thing jsp has over php is that it can possibly reuse java code, otherwise, jsp is just a really poor, poorly supported web scripting language.

Java applets are also terrible when compared to Flash. They are much slower to load, supported less, and don't run as well in IE or Firefox. Despite the size difference, there is nothing you can do in an applet you can't do in Flash, at least with a server side language.

While I'm sure there is a place for Java, it isn't good for end user applications, at least not outside of a business setting.

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Quote:
Original post by Arild Fines
Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
also, java-applets cannot be replaced by anything else in the near future.

They're already pretty much replaced by Flash.


Flashs ActionScript is horrible and doesn't compare with Java.

Quote:
Original post by Zaris
Isn't the game puzzle pirates written in Java.


It is indeed.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
It seems to me that learning Java is somewhat wasteful when you can learn C# and get all the features plus some.

But that's just me.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
It seems to me that learning Java is somewhat wasteful when you can learn C# and get all the features plus some.

But that's just me.


Yes, that's just you! Because all the serious business use Java!

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Kevinator
If you want my opinion, I can see Java being strong-armed by C# over the next few years, after which Java will die a slow, agonizing death.


And that's based on what? Microsoft propaganda? .Net is nowhere near replacing Java, not even taking market from it. The most companies using it are those that migrated away from VB6 and MFC apps, after Microsoft discontinued it.

If .Net had any growth it was due to the migration from already existing Microsoft solutions customers.

Anyway, with .Net you are locked with Windows and Microsoft tools. The "open sore" implementations aren't suitable for Enterprise development, or any commercial development.

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Quote:
Original post by Dom_152
Flashs ActionScript is horrible and doesn't compare with Java.

Than you haven't seen the latest ActionScript 3.0 I presume? Or the easy interop with the .Net framework?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Promit
The real fight is Java vs .NET in the enterprise and business apps sectors. I suspect it'll eventually balance out at some level with the two being roughly level (50/50, 40/60, whatever). Things will probably end up with .NET being used in the windows arena and Java being used elsewhere -- not because of any inherent limitation of either platform but because of the idiotic stigmas that the market and the people in the markets have.


Like what? 50/50, where? I don't think it's so.

Quote:
Original post by Promit
At the end of the day, there's really one answer. As with any type of development, anybody who knows only one language is useless. If you only know Java, you're a terrible programmer, end of story. (Same goes for any language.) Learn C#, learn C++, learn Python, learn Ruby, whatever. Be dynamic and flexible; a new environment should not be a culture shock but a half day of learning, followed by normal productivity.


There's no point in learning Java and then learn C#. They are almost the same! The point of learning different programming languages is to learn how to think with different paradigms, so a good choice from Java would be some scripting language (Perl, Python or Ruby) or even Lisp (this is excellent).

BTW, for any modern development anyone that doesn't know the value of tools is useless. Java is the most used platform because:

- It has a huge class library, that's a big time saver;
- It has backward compatibility;
- It has excellent tools to work with;
- It has an excellent VM;
- etc;
...

Somewhere around item 921:
- It has a nice language: Java

You see, the language itself it's the least of our problems. Only college students with 0 experience or some zealot of some "one true language" gives so much importance to the language in detriment to everything else.

Promit, you never give up in promoting your "C# fanboy distorted view", do you?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Saruman
Than you haven't seen the latest ActionScript 3.0 I presume? Or the easy interop with the .Net framework?


Than you have no idea of what Java is. Are you seriously comparing Flash to Java? Oh, do you know of interop with Java?

Microsoft employees have invaded this forum!

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Java isn't gaining any more momentum (as it had been for years and years), but it's already got enough adoption behind it to last it for quite some time. If Java is a "dead end", it is a dead end far, far, far in the future, with plenty of time to brake or turn or die of old age before then.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Sneftel
Java isn't gaining any more momentum (as it had been for years and years), but it's already got enough adoption behind it to last it for quite some time. If Java is a "dead end", it is a dead end far, far, far in the future, with plenty of time to brake or turn or die of old age before then.


Java is already everywhere, how can it get more momentum?? The only people claiming "dead end" are other languages fanboys, like yourself, wanting to scare people away.

Every new version new features are added, problems are solved, etc. No honest person could claim it's a "dead end", who does it it's either dishonest, clueless or plain dumb.

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Promit, you never give up in promoting your "C# fanboy distorted view", do you?
I suggested 4 different languages in my post. In retrospect, PHP and Java should have been on that list, for anybody doing business apps or web dev.

The only distorted view here is you. You browse around these forums, looking for even a vague mention of C#, and then jump in with your bullshit lies about Java, C#, and anything else you can get your hands on. You've displayed a particular fondness for following me. You were banned from these forums once, and I sure hope the mods IP ban you this time around.

Leave me the fuck alone. In fact, do us a favor and go die.

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Are you seriously comparing Flash to Java?

No not at all, I said that he obviously hasn't seen ActionScript 3.0 if he thinks it still sucked and I didn't mention Java at all. Reading comprehension for the win! I didn't once mention anything negative about Java, even though I could have brought up how Flash w/Interop basically killed off interactive Java applets on the web. Instead I chose to clear up the facts on AS3 without comparison.

Quote:

Microsoft employees have invaded this forum!

I am sorry to have to break it to you.. but Flash is not a Microsoft product and is actually a competitor.

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