Quote:Original post by krikkit
basic calculus helps explain a lot of things in math and science that, until you pick it up, are pretty much learned by memorization. Calculus helps you gain an appreciation of math and physics that is really beneficial, in my opinion.

Just so. I took physics and calculus the same year in high school. Physics was taught with lots of formulas rather than calculus, so one day I was looking at graphs of position/velocity/acceleration, and suddenly it all went *click*. I wouldn't claim to know what level of math is required for game design (if that's all you're doing, I would guess not much), but an understanding of basic calculus and Newtonian physics will really make you appreciate the simple, elegant beauty of the universe.

Quote:Original post by Raghar
I also didn't seen to use calculus or math in game programming, algorithmization a lot, however not math.

Uhh, have you done any 3D work? I pity the poor bastards who attempt to do anything serious with a 3D engine without knowing linear algebra (which requires some calculus).

You won't get anywhere as a programmer without some mathematical knowledge. For a very simple game you don't need much, other than maybe the ability to work through a bit of logic in your head and rearrange the odd equation. However, in any modern style game there are a few key areas you really do need to look at:

"Physics" in games usually refers to collision theory, and requires knowledge of applied mathematics - in particular calculus and differential equations - to be implemented fully.

3D camera systems use linear algebra (matrix theory) and geometry. Without these you won't get very far.

AI algorithms are made a lot easier with knowledge of game theory (discrete mathematics), though this is not necessarily essential and can be done with basic logic.

Game balancing is best done with some probability, unless you want to spend weeks using trial and error.

As for game design, I guess that depends on what you mean by that. The majority of what you see on this board is more "game philosophy" in my eyes; talking about what would be good in a game or what you would like to see in a game, rather than how these things could be implemented. This is why the majority of developers only employ previous programmers as designers. A non-programmer could philosophize over what would be best for a game, but he could not design it. So yes, with the correct meaning of the phrase, a game designer would have to have all the above mathematical abilities under his belt, as he'll be telling the programmers what to do half the time.

Quote:Original post by Raghar
I also didn't seen to use calculus or math in game programming, algorithmization a lot, however not math.

Quite possibly one of the most stupid things I've ever seen posted on GDNet.

Quote:
Programming is most often about discrete math, and possibly about error handling, and about using brain and solving problems. So called calculus is unneeded.

Can your brain actually think? Do you not realize that calculus is used for problem solving and directly corresponds with your statement of 'using brain and solving problems'?

Quote:
On the other hand title is often needed, and universities are believing that math is somewhat correlated with successful university student, and are pressing it heavily.

The reason is because it is a proven fact from many many research studies. Most universities will base things on your mark in Calculus because it shows your problem solving skills... how able you are to grasp concepts and apply them to figure things out.

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Math and programming has if any just a lose correlation. A lot of excelent mathemathicians are loosy programmers.

Math and programming have a direct correlation. I do agree that a lot of mathematicians are lousy programmers and usually they think more in the theoretical space and have a hard time applying it. In that regards I wouldn't call them 'great mathematicians' at all, just people that can grasp concepts quickly and understand mathematical concepts.

Quote:
While it might have something with theirs approach, and love for programming, there are also excelent programmers that are bad in math.

In my professional career of nine years as a developer I have not yet met one excellent programmer that was 'bad in math' (meaning they couldn't understand the concept I was trying to explain). Also being 'excellent in math' doesn't mean you have everything memorized or can do things off the top of your head, but it does imply that if you read a paper or listen to someone you should be able to follow along and grasp the concept. Obviously even some of the greatest mathematicians aren't going to know absolutely everything, but I'll gaurentee you they can find it out and understand it if they want to.

Now also I can't believe you would post this on a game development forum out of all places! Considering algebra, geometry, calculus and discrete mathematics are core concepts when working in the industry.

It isn't strictly necessary.

I have known many successful programmers who did not know anything about calculus or formal math. Their strengths were elsewhere, such as being able to write out reams of code from a simple spec.

Here is the simple observation: I have never heard anybody complain, "I know too much math," but I often hear groanings about not knowing enough.

re JosieNutter

I agree some type of degree is important, however I'd recommend an computer engineer type of degree. Engineer title is somewhat more useful as a fall back if he will not get into game industry (because it's as hard as get into the movie industry), or if game industry wasn't what he wanted.

Quote:Original post by Raghar
Engineer title is somewhat more useful as a fall back if he will not get into game industry (because it's as hard as get into the movie industry), or if game industry wasn't what he wanted.

What the hell are you smoking? Getting into the game industry is actually quite easy as long as you are a great programmer and have personal projects and interests to show. There are always positions open for talented people that know what they are doing and prove they have a passion for it.

Seriously you've already proven that you know absolutely nothing about game development so you shouldn't be posting on threads like this giving people false information.

[Edited by - Saruman on September 20, 2006 4:09:53 PM]