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a new picture i drew ^_^

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Tell me what you guys think. ^_^ i started a new style of japanese anime. Its going over well for me.......... i think. http://new.photos.yahoo.com/the_bouncer_2006/photo/294928803098501595/1 is the link ^_^

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You nead to learn line-weight and shading, because the image looks way to flat right now. Also, your perspective and stance are way off; realistically, you couldn't twist that hard without a post to puch/pull on. Also, the arm lacks any shoulder, does not alter the fall of the breats the way its pulled up and...well...there just is no perspective.

Other than that, good work.

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I think it looks pretty good, but why are you posting it in the game design forum?

Don't listen to others who teach you how to conform your art. Art is, by definition, better being unconformed. A unique style is much more important than perfect shoulders or correct breasts.

I think your art is similar to the artist who did work for the Final Fantasy VI books. His style was also incorrect, but also very unique and beautiful.

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looks pretty good...But, and I mean no offense by this, there are some rather amatureish anatomy issues that need to be resolved.

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Her head seems to big for her body and her torso seems to be contorted wierdly. Other than that it's cool looking.

Question. Is the left breasts supposed to be larger than the right breast at that angle?

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Original post by Kest
I think it looks pretty good, but why are you posting it in the game design forum?

Don't listen to others who teach you how to conform your art. Art is, by definition, better being unconformed. A unique style is much more important than perfect shoulders or correct breasts.

I think your art is similar to the artist who did work for the Final Fantasy VI books. His style was also incorrect, but also very unique and beautiful.


True, but you should know and be able to draw 'correctly' before claiming that you are doing some new art 'style'. If you don't do this, you may find a mob of angry starving artists waving pitchforks outside your door someday.

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Original post by Talroth
True, but you should know and be able to draw 'correctly' before claiming that you are doing some new art 'style'.

There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art. A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style. The imperfections add to his style. If those imperfections conflict with other elements in his style, then that should be changed. But it's very difficult to determine how consistent his style is while only looking at this one image.

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Ok i am taking this as constructive critisism to further advance myself ^_^. Anyways here is some before and after shots of my resent art done ^_^. I hope you guys enjoy ^_^


http://new.photos.yahoo.com/the_bouncer_2006/?change_count=0#page1

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oh yeah ^_^. To let you know the distorted anatomy of the body is on purpose. I am trying Final fantasy design ^_^. I really like it and usually the anatomy is alot more well perportioned in my style i really like this style ^_^

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Something about the anatomy seems... wrong...

Way better than anything I could do though, and apart from the weirdness around the shoulder it looks pretty good.

I'm moving you to Visual Arts, you might get some better responses there.

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Original post by Kest
Quote:
Original post by Talroth
True, but you should know and be able to draw 'correctly' before claiming that you are doing some new art 'style'.

There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art. A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style. The imperfections add to his style. If those imperfections conflict with other elements in his style, then that should be changed. But it's very difficult to determine how consistent his style is while only looking at this one image.


I agree whole heartedly :)

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
I seriously wish I could draw that good, though, im pretty good with stick figures

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Original post by the_bouncer_2006
oh yeah ^_^. To let you know the distorted anatomy of the body is on purpose. I am trying Final fantasy design ^_^. I really like it and usually the anatomy is alot more well perportioned in my style i really like this style ^_^


1) She has no hips.
2) Her pants are falling down. (Seriously, you would be able to see a good 4 inches of her ass crack from behind...)


Tis a nice drawing tho ;)

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Quote:
Original post by Kest
There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art. A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style. The imperfections add to his style. If those imperfections conflict with other elements in his style, then that should be changed. But it's very difficult to determine how consistent his style is while only looking at this one image.


I'm sorry, but that is absurd. While you are correct that there is no such thing as 'correct' art (because it is inherently a form of expression), there is most definately 'good' art and 'poor' art. the_bouncer's falls somewhere inbetween, but to say the renderings of a 12 year old who picks up a pencil is 'art' is an insult. Art is an exploration of aethetic principles. Studying art is studying these aethetic principles. You cannot POSSIBLY say someone who has no training and someone who has spent their life learning have the same artistic ability (that is, the experience with aethetic ideas and the ability to express them).
Painting/drawing (and to some degree photography as well), all art, is a stylization of reality... good art or bad art has nothing to do with the degree of photorealism or degree of non-representational, it has to do with how effective the artist is at conveying his aethetic principles (design skill) through his art (artistic skill).
Consider someone such as Ingres and his odalisque, or any Cubist, Impressionist, etc. NO artist from recorded history, to the best of my knowledge, suddenly picked up a tool as was considered skilled in art; it is not so in any other trade, why art? All artists, no matter how stylized, know HOW to realistically represent their work, 'style' is something they develop to more powerfully convey their design. If they cannot realistically convey what they see, then how can they possibly UNrealistically convey it?
Which is the problem with calling a drawing with awkwardly incorrect anatomy a 'style.' Something like the Odalisque, with her long spine, conveys a sense of sexuality and a sensuous feeling and exoticism, whereas the downright incorrect anatomy of bouncer's drawing does not. Each 'incorrect' part is not AT ALL incorrect; the artist makes a conscious decision to do what they do.
Things like a non-articulated clavicle, poorly composed stomach material, and impossibly turns upper torso, and an improperly located left arm/shoulder do NOT enhance the picture. Or, perhaps, you can explain how they do, or bouncer can say why he made those intentional inaccuracies (which he has already stated are not intentional, as he is learning).
But please, for the sake of art, do not call someone's inexperience style and do not call any scribble on a paper art.

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I agree with Professor420, as usual.

Art/beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but a kid with a pencil is not producing a 'new style'. Drawing something that doesn't look right and saying, 'thats just my style', isn't an artist, thats someone who doesn't want to improve.

Its all opinion though, so no point arguing. If the 'style' is so awsome, get a job doing it.

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Quote:
Original post by the_bouncer_2006
Ok i am taking this as constructive critisism to further advance myself ^_^. Anyways here is some before and after shots of my resent art done ^_^. I hope you guys enjoy ^_^


http://new.photos.yahoo.com/the_bouncer_2006/?change_count=0#page1


Quote:
Original post by the_bouncer_2006
oh yeah ^_^. To let you know the distorted anatomy of the body is on purpose. I am trying Final fantasy design ^_^. I really like it and usually the anatomy is alot more well perportioned in my style i really like this style ^_^

^_^ is not required to precede a period. In fact, it makes you look like an idiot. Is that what you want?

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Quote:
Original post by Professor420
Quote:
Original post by Kest
There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art. A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style. The imperfections add to his style. If those imperfections conflict with other elements in his style, then that should be changed. But it's very difficult to determine how consistent his style is while only looking at this one image.

I'm sorry, but that is absurd.

Alright, I'm in the shield stance.

Quote:
but to say the renderings of a 12 year old who picks up a pencil is 'art' is an insult.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. I literally thought the specific unique elements of this specific drawing added to it. Although it's possible that my opinion could be heavily influenced by nostalgia of my own past.

Quote:
You cannot POSSIBLY say someone who has no training and someone who has spent their life learning have the same artistic ability (that is, the experience with aethetic ideas and the ability to express them).

A new type of artistic style may look erroneous to some viewers. Especially aspiring would-be artists who have worked their way up the artistic skill ladder by copying work from others. That is how I associate 'incorrect' with 'art'. A break from the standard. But I didn't claim anyone had reached any level of skill.

Quote:
NO artist from recorded history, to the best of my knowledge, suddenly picked up a tool as was considered skilled in art; it is not so in any other trade, why art?

I'm honored that you were able to find so many hidden meanings in my small amount of text, but some of them seem materialized. Again, I did not imply anything about skill.

Quote:
All artists, no matter how stylized, know HOW to realistically represent their work, 'style' is something they develop to more powerfully convey their design. If they cannot realistically convey what they see, then how can they possibly UNrealistically convey it?

It's much easier to start off with your own style than it is to create a new style after the mastery other styles. Extensive knowledge of other styles will build walls around your potential to be unique. Throw some children on a new planet and watch then create a brand new culture. Add their parents to teach them and you'll instead get a derived culture at best. A true scientist should research what others have done before coming up with new ideas. A true artist should do exactly the opposite. I've seen many styles of art with strange anatomy. Some of them I liked and some I didn't. I liked this one.

Quote:
Things like a non-articulated clavicle, poorly composed stomach material, and impossibly turns upper torso, and an improperly located left arm/shoulder do NOT enhance the picture. Or, perhaps, you can explain how they do

It honestly doesn't look that bad to me. It's difficult to explain why I like it, because I don't see the same problems you seem to have with it.

Quote:
or bouncer can say why he made those intentional inaccuracies (which he has already stated are not intentional, as he is learning).

I'm pretty sure you're mistaken:
Quote:
Original post by the_bouncer_2006
oh yeah ^_^. To let you know the distorted anatomy of the body is on purpose.


Quote:
But please, for the sake of art, do not call someone's inexperience style and do not call any scribble on a paper art.

I think you're a little too crule and hostile my friend. It's obvious he's still learning, but I wouldn't call it scribble. I honestly believe his style will shine nicely if he keeps improving it. I apologize if I said anything to light a fire under your seat. It was far from my intention.

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If anyone is unfamiliar with the artwork in Final Fantasy VI that I was referring to, here's a link. I have forgotten his name, but he definitely commands my favorite style of art. Bouncer's work somewhat reminds me of this style.

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Quote:
Original post by Kest
Quote:
Original post by Professor420
Quote:
Original post by Kest
There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art. A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style. The imperfections add to his style. If those imperfections conflict with other elements in his style, then that should be changed. But it's very difficult to determine how consistent his style is while only looking at this one image.

I'm sorry, but that is absurd.

Alright, I'm in the shield stance.

Quote:
but to say the renderings of a 12 year old who picks up a pencil is 'art' is an insult.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. I literally thought the specific unique elements of this specific drawing added to it. Although it's possible that my opinion could be heavily influenced by nostalgia of my own past.

Quote:
You cannot POSSIBLY say someone who has no training and someone who has spent their life learning have the same artistic ability (that is, the experience with aethetic ideas and the ability to express them).

A new type of artistic style may look erroneous to some viewers. Especially aspiring would-be artists who have worked their way up the artistic skill ladder by copying work from others. That is how I associate 'incorrect' with 'art'. A break from the standard. But I didn't claim anyone had reached any level of skill.

Quote:
NO artist from recorded history, to the best of my knowledge, suddenly picked up a tool as was considered skilled in art; it is not so in any other trade, why art?

I'm honored that you were able to find so many hidden meanings in my small amount of text, but some of them seem materialized. Again, I did not imply anything about skill.

Quote:
All artists, no matter how stylized, know HOW to realistically represent their work, 'style' is something they develop to more powerfully convey their design. If they cannot realistically convey what they see, then how can they possibly UNrealistically convey it?

It's much easier to start off with your own style than it is to create a new style after the mastery other styles. Extensive knowledge of other styles will build walls around your potential to be unique. Throw some children on a new planet and watch then create a brand new culture. Add their parents to teach them and you'll instead get a derived culture at best. A true scientist should research what others have done before coming up with new ideas. A true artist should do exactly the opposite. I've seen many styles of art with strange anatomy. Some of them I liked and some I didn't. I liked this one.

Quote:
Things like a non-articulated clavicle, poorly composed stomach material, and impossibly turns upper torso, and an improperly located left arm/shoulder do NOT enhance the picture. Or, perhaps, you can explain how they do

It honestly doesn't look that bad to me. It's difficult to explain why I like it, because I don't see the same problems you seem to have with it.

Quote:
or bouncer can say why he made those intentional inaccuracies (which he has already stated are not intentional, as he is learning).

I'm pretty sure you're mistaken:
Quote:
Original post by the_bouncer_2006
oh yeah ^_^. To let you know the distorted anatomy of the body is on purpose.


Quote:
But please, for the sake of art, do not call someone's inexperience style and do not call any scribble on a paper art.

I think you're a little too crule and hostile my friend. It's obvious he's still learning, but I wouldn't call it scribble. I honestly believe his style will shine nicely if he keeps improving it. I apologize if I said anything to light a fire under your seat. It was far from my intention.


Quote:
I think you're a little too crule and hostile my friend. It's obvious he's still learning, but I wouldn't call it scribble. I honestly believe his style will shine nicely if he keeps improving it. I apologize if I said anything to light a fire under your seat. It was far from my intention.

No, his drawing is definately not scribble, I didn't mean to imply it was, and I only felt I could draw that final extreme because I earlier said: "there is most definately 'good' art and 'poor' art. the_bouncer's falls somewhere inbetween..." And, my entire point of these posts, is that if he can't draw accurately, his style will NEVER improve, it will never become a style and will always be a series of mistakes, because he won't know how to change anatomy, what to change, etc., in order to keep his design and style consistent.

Anyway, I only feel so strongly about this issue because the amount of coddling we give teenage/college people, especially artists, is sickening. Sometimes its good to be a bit stiff and harsh in your critiques, reward effort but always give a good critique. I would guarentee someone's skills improve more in their arts classes where the teacher pushes them and finds everything that works and doesn't work in their piece, rather than from a class whose instructor spends all their time finding how the student's sub-par work is its own style or why its so great (having had many of both, and seeing the results of my own and others work, I feel confident about this assertion). If the student could point out his own mistakes, he probably wouldn't do them, so why spend the time pointing out whats supposedly so unique and grand? Better commend him for the effort and improvment, but constantly point out errors and how to solve them, don't make excuses.

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Well anyways like i said i know the anatomy of the body is off ^_^. I been drawing for about 7 years now. I am doing some art my own style so you can see i know how anatomy works ^_^. But i am doing this on purpose because i think FF art is pretty awesome. I take all constructive critisism because it helps me focus on details that i need to focus on ^_^. But for this style it allows someone to draw free and focus past minor details to construct there own visions ^_^. Everyone has an art style. And most japanese anime artist have there characters unrealistictly unproportioned. ^_^

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No one is talking about proportions. The problem with your 'anatomy' is that things arn't in the right place.

Sure, in anime its fine to have people with ridiculosly long legs, big heads and huge eyes. However, you can't just ignore the fact that they are going to need a shoulder, or know how a shoulder works. You need to correctly be able to place a clavical and give the impression of a twist that is more realistic. Reguardless of anatomy, you need to learn perspective, nothing in your drawing is in the normal bounds of how we percive distance.

At the same time, if you want to call it 'style' your going to have to learn to portray more then anatomy. style is based on multiple elements; point of view, distortion and so forth; to do this you must employ methods to convey what your trying to get the viewer to see, this cannot be done through uniform thick lines and minimal, light source defying shading alone.

Quit pushing 'its how how I draw' and 'thats not a mistake, its a style' as excuses for your lack of artistic ability and start practicing.

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Believe me its not a lack of artistic abilty. ^_^ i have won over 30 art competitions and i have all the trophies and certificates on my wall. So i do understand what i am doing and talking about. The problem with artist like you is you visualize one art stand point. And that is not either style or art. Art is something someone feels not something that comes out of a text book. Which is pretty much your art style( the way our describing it). I would rather try something new then do the same art style over and over again. Porportion is very easy.... But bending the body the way where it is unporportioned is very hard. But i am continuing with this art style because i been getting alot of great ups trying to master this style. I always take constructive critisim well, but your views are not constructive they are rude. I like what others have to say on here, but yours is rude i wasnt looking for good job comments, looking for constructive critisism......... not from someone who gets there art out of a text book and follows every single rule to be safe. ^_^ thats why i went outside of my safe guide lines to find something new that i enjoy drawing ^_^.

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