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Oblivion and its problems

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I wanted to do a detailed analysis of Oblivion after I would have a little experience with that, however after HD failure it seems it would be better to do it now. I shortened it a little and decided to use it as a basics for discussion about game design. What were problem with the Oblivion? First at all lets look at graphics. Of course it doesn't have anything to do with game design, however graphics affects Oblivion quite much. Surprisingly they thought, not the game play, but a graphic would be a sale point of Oblivion, and they went rather far. Their problem was they believed in graphics bit too much. Basically facial expression isn't necessary for RPG. Indoor gameplay also shouln't be GFX limited. Now lets look at design part. They used a standard -10 - 10 based mechanism presented to player as a numbers from 1 - 100+. They simplified the skill system a little, be removing half of skills. They also simplified armor system. While these simplification tendencies might look nice, the same simplification tendencies also removed a lots of game play elements. For example a choice of a weapon. Simplistically drawn character also removed possibility of a dress me up games. If we will look into Oblivion mythology, they throwed all previous mythology out of window. While in previous attempts it was always incredibly powerful things that if they'd wanted they'd crush all resistance quickly, but what for? In Oblivion it was just a simplistic opponent bland and without danger. Opponents scale with level? This is actually something like punishing the character for becoming more dangerous himself. You'd becoming better, and they will... While scaling the enemies down might be viewed as an attempt to don't let the unexperienced character to be vaporized without chance to defend itself, the used system was set to punish all roleplaying and suboptimal character development. Shops. They are bad as in previous games. You will sold a lot of equipment and the owner will not become more rich. Also they were stocked in accordance to the character level. While this isn't bad, more famous character might get better choices when he would like to buy something, this implementation looked more like a hack and slash type of implementation. Walking in the room with items on the floor is also quite interesting. Oblivion lack a reasonable way how to manipulate with items, thus character items are on the floor. It's quite strange it looks like characters would have no lives. It also seems as characters are unable to evade any item laying on the floor. Animation of defeated monsters changed, if to better or worse is yet to see. At least, addition of a new enemy is trivial. So instead of an animation defeated monsters simply drop down, and might fall down the hill. I didn't see animation of a wolf being grabbed quickly with saying "I need to skin him to get the fur". AI They disabled a large amount of the framework, because they ran into a problems any experienced AI programmer would expect. If these problems are found at the initial stage, they are easily dealt with, and could lead into interesting addition of features. On the other hand if someone would think they'd just add an AI framework at the last stage, and it would easily work (for this reason we bought an AI framework), they would be severally mistaken. AI should be developed from the start with close cooperation with designers. So conclusion, they developed rather complicated thing, however its rather FPS, than a full featured RPG. One of reasons this blowed up was over reliance on graphics, and too little (in comparison to graphics) work done on other features.

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Since you took the time to write this, I feel obligated to make a few counterpoints. And by a few, I mean too many.

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Basically facial expression isn't necessary for RPG.

One thing that separates "role-playing" from other types of gameplay is that you will interact with other characters. Facial expressions allow a player to connect better with their characters, and therefore are vital to the continued evolution of role-playing.

The problem with their facial expression system is that it was just a tool, it didn't help you connect with the characters, because it was mostly used as an indicator of how much they liked you instead of an indicator of what they, as a character, were feeling.

It would have worked better had they used the system in conjunction with their radiant AI system (which never made it fully into the game), so that the characters would have a wider range of emotions. Hopefully next time.

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Indoor gameplay also shouln't be GFX limited.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

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They also simplified armor system.

Thank god. 90% of the armor in Morrowind (and most other PC role-players) are extraneous crap. Players either play it as a fashion show, or they choose the strongest armor they can find, so unless you really want to look goofy in that Colovian Fur Helm you are probably going to ignore it completely.

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While these simplification tendencies might look nice, the same simplification tendencies also removed a lots of game play elements. For example a choice of a weapon.

Oblivion lost spears and crossbows. It gained a more controllable battle system and a huge improvement to archery. More isn't necessarily better, sometimes you have to remove lesser things to focus on the features that will make the game more fun.

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While in previous attempts it was always incredibly powerful things that if they'd wanted they'd crush all resistance quickly, but what for? In Oblivion it was just a simplistic opponent bland and without danger.

Without any real argument to back this up, it sounds like a fanboy rant. If you want to be taken seriously, please elaborate. How is this opponent any more bland, "less" dangerous?

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Opponents scale with level? This is actually something like punishing the character for becoming more dangerous himself. You'd becoming better, and they will...
While scaling the enemies down might be viewed as an attempt to don't let the unexperienced character to be vaporized without chance to defend itself, the used system was set to punish all roleplaying and suboptimal character development.

Almost completely agreed. The only part I disagree with is the common misunderstanding that Oblivion is somehow different from the other Elder Scrolls games in this regard. People seem to forget that Morrowind chose enemy equipment based on player skill levels.

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Shops. They are bad as in previous games.

I would say possibly worse, because when you sell stuff to them their money doesn't decrease. Of course, I think this was on purpose to avoid the standard Morrowind "sell, sleep 24 hours, sell, sleep 24 hours" syndrome.

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Animation of defeated monsters changed, if to better or worse is yet to see. At least, addition of a new enemy is trivial.

Trivial to add a new enemy to the game? Am I misunderstanding you here?

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So instead of an animation defeated monsters simply drop down, and might fall down the hill.

What happens when you kill somebody in real life. I would assume (though I've never killed anyone before) that they would fall, possibly down a hill if the situation arose. I guess they could have modeled muscle spasms, or that gurgling sound in their throat, if you want more realism.

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I didn't see animation of a wolf being grabbed quickly with saying "I need to skin him to get the fur".

Dude, they didn't even finish the AI system. Why would they spend time doing unnecessary "decorative" animations when the core of the game isn't done?

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AI They disabled a large amount of the framework, because they ran into a problems any experienced AI programmer would expect. If these problems are found at the initial stage, they are easily dealt with, and could lead into interesting addition of features.

It's not as easy as you would think to make it mesh with the gameplay. The reason they removed it is because quest characters would get themselves killed and you could never do their quest. I agree that they should have been able to fix it, but there are other parts of the game that are more important and since we weren't part of the project we can't assume that they were given the proper time and resources to finish the Radiant AI.

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AI should be developed from the start with close cooperation with designers.

So true.

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So conclusion, they developed rather complicated thing, however its rather FPS, than a full featured RPG.

Name something non-trivial that Morrowind had that Oblivion doesn't. By non-trivial, I mean something that isn't a differently shaped weapon or a skill that wasn't somehow incorporated into other Oblivion skills. I really want to know, because in my 200+ hours of Oblivion I have yet to see anything but design improvements and deeper gameplay (and I loved Morrowind, despite the non-stop fetch quests and uninspired dungeons).

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One of reasons this blowed up was over reliance on graphics, and too little (in comparison to graphics) work done on other features.

You are making an uninformed assumption here. Oblivion uses Gamebryo, they didn't build the graphics engine from scratch (and there was not much of a learning curve, they had already used it for Morrowind). Their trees and foliage use SpeedTree, they didn't write the foliage engine from scratch. Sure, they wrote the shaders and the animations, but the animation system is actually somewhat simple. So yeah, I guess by your logic most of the three years of development was in writing shaders. That's alot of shaders.


I don't want to rain on your parade, and I'm not trying to say you are totally wrong. Oblivion is not a perfect game. But if you are going to do a design breakdown, you need less baseless ranting and more backed-up critiques. Please feel free to critique my critique of your critique if you like, and I'll probably end up critiquing that critique. If you read that sentence five times fast, your brain will probably pop out of your nose. Don't try it.

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I found a heavily-modded oblivion to be an incredible experience. I was quite annoyed with the level scaling in the vanilla version.

One thing that kinda sucked is how they crippled the magic system a bit. Also Morrowind was way bigger, which was cool, probably a tradeoff for all the ingame speech.

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The only thing I hate about Oblivion is the hard-coded limit of one enchantment on armour pieces when enchanting your own equipment. Besides that, combine it with a leveling mod and you have a fantastic experience.

Morrowind straight out of the box was pretty dull - it was the mods that made it one of the most memorable RPGs ever created.

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First at all lets look at graphics. Of course it doesn't have anything to do with game design, however graphics affects Oblivion quite much. Surprisingly they thought, not the game play, but a graphic would be a sale point of Oblivion, and they went rather far. Their problem was they believed in graphics bit too much. Basically facial expression isn't necessary for RPG. Indoor gameplay also shouln't be GFX limited.

Oblivion is one of the most graphically stunning games I've ever seen. I often just rode up to higher ground just to sit there and admire the scenery. (and I wasn't even running it at the highest graphical detail!). But I certainly didn't see it detrimental to the gameplay in any way.

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What happens when you kill somebody in real life. I would assume (though I've never killed anyone before) that they would fall, possibly down a hill if the situation arose. I guess they could have modeled muscle spasms, or that gurgling sound in their throat, if you want more realism.

It could be a quirky glitch in the graphics engine, but I swear that a few times when I shot a wolf with my bow, that it occasionally lay on the ground twitching, until I took out my sword and put the poor creature out of it's misery. :)

Speaking of combat in Oblivion, the only thing I did to the game to make it more enjoyable for me, was to turn down the difficulty settings during the Oblivion Gate areas. I found, as an archer, that the combat was way too hard. Otherwise, I found the game to be quite an enjoyable experience - though, towards the end, I found it getting a bit repetitive. Great game though, and I'm sure I will play it again someday - but now it's time to replay Deus Ex! :)

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Morrowind straight out of the box was pretty dull - it was the mods that made it one of the most memorable RPGs ever created.

I didn't get far into Morrowind cause it did seem quite dull to me, but since playing Oblivion I am interested in going back to it. What kind of things did the mods improve upon that made the game more memorable?

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I played Morrowind for about a week before I magicked up some uber stats and started hulk-leaping across the continent in my ninja suit and knifing everything to death with superhuman prowess. The game gets better when you're a many-armed unkillable fury of dooooooom. I had a samurai costume I put together, too. I had a plain katana and would stand perfectly still while an enemy charged me, then dispatch it with a single, decisive strike. That's how I bring it.

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Original post by JBourrie
Quote:
Opponents scale with level? This is actually something like punishing the character for becoming more dangerous himself. You'd becoming better, and they will...
While scaling the enemies down might be viewed as an attempt to don't let the unexperienced character to be vaporized without chance to defend itself, the used system was set to punish all roleplaying and suboptimal character development.

Almost completely agreed. The only part I disagree with is the common misunderstanding that Oblivion is somehow different from the other Elder Scrolls games in this regard. People seem to forget that Morrowind chose enemy equipment based on player skill levels.


I will say this for enemies that scale with the player: it severly limits any benefit the player recieves from "power-leveling". I personally think this is actualy a huge benefit, as it focuses attention away from leveling and towards exploration and the story iteself. It also helps open the game up much more. If enemies did not scale, then in the begining of the game there would be a handfull of areas that would be safe to go to, while the rest were off limits if you wanted to stay alive. By keeping the monster level even with your character level, it really let you do all the exploring you wanted, when you wanted. And really, in a game like Oblivion, its all about exploring your surroundings.

My biggest complaint with oblivion is that I never got the feeling that enemies were actualy part of the environment. While exploring, it is common to come accross a mine or ruins or whatever, and invariably there would be a monster or two guarding the entrance, as well as several more scattered inside the dungeon. But thats it. Monsters were not scattered through the environment, moving about and interacting with each other, they were just positioned in or around dungeons and the only purpose they served was to attack you. Whenever you came near a dungeon entrance you knew there would be a monster nearby and vise versa, it all just felt artifical to me.

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I loved the graphics on oblivon but really hated the leveling/difficulty.
I usally play games on about 75% of max difficulty not coz im some uber gammer but itll be more of a challenge that way and take me longer. On oblivon this soo buggred me, I played an elven archer mage I early on met a sprite got owned quickly, thought right ill get some new spells more mana and go kick its ass. i went back and it had become a troll and it owned me, i reloaded got myself in to severall "secure locations" and attacked it, with all my mana in fire spells and arrows i couldnt kill it. i got over these problems though as i learnt the game and then found it worked like this:

I could be rich just buy ferryign every peice of kit of the dead in a dungeon back to a smith and selling it.(just waste of time)
I could kill anything in with a combo, Sneak attack arrow thats been poisoned with a 3hp 15 second damage and a 3hp 18 second damage, and if it was still walking id blast it with magic.

and this wasnt far into the game, all i had to do was invest time to get the ingreedients or ferry the kit. I CBA in the end coz that just meant id spend a tone of ingame time doing that for an easy kill every time.

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The one bad thing I can say about the graphics in OB is that such a huge render distance made it seem very small. For some reason to me and several of my friends Morrowind seemed MUCH larger, yet it was actualy quite a bit smaller. Of course I don't see how one could fix that problem. Other than gimping the render distance in OB or making the game world much larger that it already was. Either way its a problem for the devs.

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I think there always will be cons and pros, no matter what game is being discussed, personally I'm fan of the Elder Scrolls series, though I haven't played Oblivion yet.

I heard and read about it, and as people have said, the main improvement you notice from Morrowind is the graphics, it has taken a great leap.

...Now they just need to make a multi-player version, it's the only thing I really missed in Morrowind, other human players. It was/is far too big and boring, to travel around in alone.

I would even be that bold to say, if they made Morrowind somewhat larger, and implemented multiplayer a long with better graphics, WoW will see the last of it days.

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This might not be agreeable by most people here, but I personally think the level design could have been better, especially of towns and cities. I seem to get more lost inside than being out in the jungle. I don't know if the level designer is trying to stay true to the "wealthiness" ranking of each city/town, but I think the street system inside the city should have been much better. For example, in some cities, streets leading up to the castle are not entirely obvious or celebrated. The door that leads to the castle throne was just a normal wooden door, I didnt expect it would lead to that space until I saw the text on screen. The architecture for the Imperial City is very beautiful (especially if you look at it from the mountains), but I personally think the streets system could be more effective eventhough it seem more organised. Its a good idea to divide into several districts but the tower at the center is a mess up. Its way too big, Ive to walk a big giant semicircle just to get another distant district (I prefer to just fast travel to these locations). And the entrances to each district should be more specific, like the entrance to the Market District looks just like the same as the entrance to the Elven District.
Thats all I shall rant about :D

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I hated Oblvion because:

1. Dynamic NPC's? "HEY U HEAR BOUT DEM MUDCRBS?" "LOLOL MUDCRABS R TEH SUCK", their NPC's were totally over hyped. Wow, they are programmed to be somewhere at a certain time of day, and to interact with other NPC's, it's not that great and it's not even game changing. If this contributed to my next complaint I hate Dyanmic NPC's even more.

2. Loading time, and the amount of times you had to load. Whenever I opened a freakin' door. Whats wrong with taking out un-necesarry crap like perfect physics engines, I sure as hell don't want to wait an extra hour for something that doesn't even *really* effect gameplay that much.

3. If you're a class that, in order to survive, needs to do a crapload of damage before your target notices you... you will not survive. Is it me or is the game built around the assumption that most people will make mages or warriors? It's silly how much illusion magic I have to use in order to get the job done. I thought an assasin would be able to do things quickly, how wrong I was.
----------

This doesn't relate much to your rant, but I felt like getting that off my chest anyway.

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Original post by JBourrie
Since you took the time to write this, I feel obligated to make a few counterpoints. And by a few, I mean too many.

Quote:
Basically facial expression isn't necessary for RPG.

One thing that separates "role-playing" from other types of gameplay is that you will interact with other characters. Facial expressions allow a player to connect better with their characters, and therefore are vital to the continued evolution of role-playing.


I know three ways how to do that.
First.
  • Do it in the 3D. It will have a problem with generation of a probably too much vertexes rich model, unnecessary.
  • Create a small image, and show the facial expression inside of that image. It has an advantage in the possibility of creating an abstraction, and significant advantage in clarity. It will also prevent need for speaker face to be as close as 0.05 m from you face.
  • Create small bubble above head of speaker with icons about his mood and current state. Have you seen Tales of eternia series?

    Also there are less graphically intensive helper solution like.
  • Create a text about speaker state in different window. (dependent on your speech skill)
  • Text coloring.

    It seems like the "valley of 10000 terrors" doesn't apply just on the graphic, but also on a RPG like interaction. The more cinematic approach, the more ugly details are needed to be done. (for example ability of moving into less problematic location, to don't stand in the main doorway and chit-chatting for 8 hours). I didn't see a conversation when you and the other persons sat to the table and get some tea when that talk was supposed to be longer.

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    Indoor gameplay also shouldn't be GFX limited.

    I have no idea what you mean by this.

    Try to read it literally. Indoor scenes doesn't need to show a small tornadoes of dust, weather effects, lightnings, and other elements. Indoors should be full of dusty nice drawn rooms full of soft colors, it looks like it was uninhabited for thousand years, then someone would touch you from behind.
    For some strange reason indoor scenes required incredible amount of GFX power.
    I didn't see a scene like. A men is sitting behind the table in the chair reading a book. While he turned pages the flame of the candle on the table flickered and throwed shadows of the book around the room. He looked from the book at you, his eyes had a red glow. You said "Hi, would you help me?". He closed the book, put it on the table, doused the candle. Room fell into darkness. The darkness was suddenly interrupted be a bright light. The room countures emerged sharply after the light spell was in effect. You stood still. "Yes", he said.

    I never seen a scene as imersive in Oblivion. Thus it's hard to explain the high requirements for graphics power indoors. Especially considering how badly architecturally looked the indoors.

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    Players either play it as a fashion show, or they choose the strongest armor they can find, so unless you really want to look goofy in that Colovian Fur Helm you are probably going to ignore it completely.


    And now compare it with the real life.

    Of course I don't mean to enforce each boot different, and each glove in different fashion approach. However 3D character was better than the simplified item box they used.

    The other bad thing on theirs armor system was how EASILY could be armor damaged by completely minor attacks.

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    Oblivion lost spears and crossbows. It gained a more controllable battle system and a huge improvement to archery. More isn't necessarily better, sometimes you have to remove lesser things to focus on the features that will make the game more fun.

    None of these require to have less weapon skills than Dungeon crawl. In fact some people might like that spears, and crossbows...

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    While in previous attempts it was always incredibly powerful things that if they'd wanted they'd crush all resistance quickly, but what for? In Oblivion it was just a simplistic opponent bland and without danger.

    Without any real argument to back this up, it sounds like a fanboy rant. If you want to be taken seriously, please elaborate. How is this opponent any more bland, "less" dangerous?
    You missed that part about mythology.

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    Opponents scale with level? This is actually something like punishing the character for becoming more dangerous himself. You'd becoming better, and they will...
    While scaling the enemies down might be viewed as an attempt to don't let the unexperienced character to be vaporized without chance to defend itself, the used system was set to punish all roleplaying and suboptimal character development.

    Almost completely agreed. The only part I disagree with is the common misunderstanding that Oblivion is somehow different from the other Elder Scrolls games in this regard. People seem to forget that Morrowind chose enemy equipment based on player skill levels.
    Side note. Previous versions used from 1 to max level approach. Thus these pesky titans appeared just occasionally. Oblivion looks like uses max level approach, or that "curve" is significantly worse. Thus the really powerful monsters are appearing surprisingly regularly.


    Quote:
    I don't want to rain on your parade, and I'm not trying to say you are totally wrong. Oblivion is not a perfect game. But if you are going to do a design breakdown, you need less baseless ranting and more backed-up critiques. Please feel free to critique my critique of your critique if you like, and I'll probably end up critiquing that critique. If you read that sentence five times fast, your brain will probably pop out of your nose. Don't try it.


    The smallest brain was in ownership of Dakaramu. It was orange sized. I doubt even orange sized device might fall through nose without significant effort from outside. ~_^

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    Quote:
    Original post by -JetSirus-
    The one bad thing I can say about the graphics in OB is that such a huge render distance made it seem very small. For some reason to me and several of my friends Morrowind seemed MUCH larger, yet it was actualy quite a bit smaller. Of course I don't see how one could fix that problem. Other than gimping the render distance in OB or making the game world much larger that it already was. Either way its a problem for the devs.


    This is a fairly common complaint on our forums. I suspect it's completely subjective--to me the world in Oblivion feels huge precisely because I can see distant cities and mountains and know that yes, I can actually reach that spot.

    Of course, you can always just disable Distant LOD rendering in the video menu (on the PC at least). That would reduce how much of the world you can see at a time tremendously.

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    Scale in Oblivion is in conflict with itself. It always LOOKS absolutely enourmous ... which makes you "feel" emotionally that you are in a large, vivid, lush world when running around aimlessly.

    But when you open up the map, and find a dungeon entrance or fort every half inch, it seems very very crowded (the opposite of big and spacious - cramped and full).

    And when you are on a quest or have a goal related to such things, it often feels very small .... (oh what, I ran for 45 seconds an MISSED the next fort ... but I found another just past it ....

    However when you have to talk around the main city, outside the wall .... boy it felt big then - wow, this feels like an actual CITY! ... a huge walled city of the time - walking down and up the hills, getting attacked by wolf and diseased (damn I hated the commonality of disease).

    Then when you walk from 1 city to another, it was somewhat small again. Just follow this road for 3 minutes and your there.

    Of course the thing is, they made almost all the right decisions. Because it is just so damn fun being able to go from 1 dungeon to another as quickly as you want ... when your in the mood ... but to walk for minutes up that hillside into the lush and different vegitation when you have a hankering to explore. So the countryside felt a lot like the world must seem to an 8 year old ... huge and full of wonder! Where a quest is riding your bike past the walk brigde to your friends swimming pool, stopping a few times to kick ants and climb stuff.

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    It may be a small design decision but for me this had a huge negative effect on gameplay: the ability to rest/sleep everywhere (not near enemies or in enemy buildings).

    Of course, you should have the option to sleep out int he wilderness, but then with a chance of getting killed by animals/npcs without a chance to defend yourself.

    Or what about resting in a city on streets, how would it look like if you come to a town in your shiny armor, pockets full of gold and then... you sit down on the street and start sleeping there for a few hours? In this case I would like to see guards arresting you, or at least let you pay a fine.

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    My complaints with Oblivion deal with graphical and audio bugs/glitches. The problems were massive and neverending.

    Yet I still loved the game. I actually felt awful a few times because of things I did in the game, and pretty damn pleased with myself at other times.

    At some point, I'm going to play through it again with some mods (other than the changes to the UI that I used) and enjoy it all over again!

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    Quote:
    Original post by Raghar
    I know three ways how to do that.
    First.
  • Do it in the 3D. It will have a problem with generation of a probably too much vertexes rich model, unnecessary.
  • Create a small image, and show the facial expression inside of that image. It has an advantage in the possibility of creating an abstraction, and significant advantage in clarity. It will also prevent need for speaker face to be as close as 0.05 m from you face.
  • Create small bubble above head of speaker with icons about his mood and current state. Have you seen Tales of eternia series?

    Also there are less graphically intensive helper solution like.
  • Create a text about speaker state in different window. (dependent on your speech skill)
  • Text coloring.

  • I realize that there are other ways to show human emotions in games. Another possibility is to do have an on-screen mood ring that changes colors based on the characters current emotion.

    However, facial expressions are read naturally by a human without any prior knowledge of the system being used. I don't have to make the connection that red means anger when I can see the snarl on their face. For a game that is striving for realism this seems like the best solution. As I said before, I just think the facial expressions weren't subtle enough, the snarl was so pronounced that it might as well have been an icon.

    Quote:
    It seems like the "valley of 10000 terrors" doesn't apply just on the graphic, but also on a RPG like interaction. The more cinematic approach, the more ugly details are needed to be done. (for example ability of moving into less problematic location, to don't stand in the main doorway and chit-chatting for 8 hours). I didn't see a conversation when you and the other persons sat to the table and get some tea when that talk was supposed to be longer.

    Once again it seems you are looking for decorative animations, and I agree that it would have been amazing to see. Maybe we will see this sort of interaction in a smaller game soon. Oblivion is just too big to have this kind of detail (hence the failure of the Radiant AI).

    Quote:
    Of course I don't mean to enforce each boot different, and each glove in different fashion approach. However 3D character was better than the simplified item box they used.

    Pretty much agreed.

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    In fact some people might like that spears, and crossbows...

    My point was that (and this is from a Bethesda interview) spears and crossbows were removed because they wanted to spend more time with each weapon to make it feel right. Some people might like guns, or broken beer bottles, or Cheetah on a Stick (TM), but the line has to be drawn at what stuff is "just enough".

    Would a crossbow have felt that much different than a longbow? Did it in Morrowind? Same with spear/blunt, in MW they felt practically the same, so there was little reason to have both of them.

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    While in previous attempts it was always incredibly powerful things that if they'd wanted they'd crush all resistance quickly, but what for? In Oblivion it was just a simplistic opponent bland and without danger.

    Without any real argument to back this up, it sounds like a fanboy rant. If you want to be taken seriously, please elaborate. How is this opponent any more bland, "less" dangerous?
    You missed that part about mythology.

    I saw you mention the word Mythology:

    Quote:
    If we will look into Oblivion mythology, they throwed all previous mythology out of window. While in previous attempts it was always incredibly powerful things that if they'd wanted they'd crush all resistance quickly, but what for? In Oblivion it was just a simplistic opponent bland and without danger.

    But I couldn't make heads or tails of what point you were trying to make. If you're talking about how they removed the mountains of text that made up the story of Morrowind, then I understand what you're saying about mythology (though I say good riddance, that was way too much text).

    It still doesn't explain your jump from mythology into a criticism of Mehrunes Dagon. Dagon: An enemy from a dark land that you are destined to kill. Dagoth Ur: An enemy from a dark land that you are destined to kill.

    Quote:
    The smallest brain was in ownership of Dakaramu. It was orange sized. I doubt even orange sized device might fall through nose without significant effort from outside. ~_^

    It might melt, and then spray out when you sneeze.

    That gave me a really disgusting picture in my head. I'm not hungry anymore. :)

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