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Timus

Modern elements in fantasy game.

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Imagine a game of Dragons and Giants, Sorcery and Swordery, Might and Magic. As you explore a land filled with exciting (albeit generic) fantasy elements and eventually you come across gritty soldiers wielding heavy machine guns? What if the land those soldiers protect is reminscient of todays industrial zones? Particulalry industrial 'wastelands'. Naturally there's more to it then just the environment, but thinking fundamentally would this make the game less immersive, more immersive, or would you think it lame to combine two opposing atmospheres?

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Original post by Timus
but thinking fundamentally would this make the game less immersive, more immersive, or would you think it lame to combine two opposing atmospheres?


It all depends on your implimentation. If you can weave them into the story in a decent manor (explain why they have all this tech while other are still useing swords, yet they haven't concoured the world?) then it would be fine. Alot of games get around this by useing so called "steam-tech". I personally really like that stuff as it does mean you can have robots and wizards side by side without it looking stupid. Having storm troopers next to gandalf would look ridiculious, but as long as you have some taste no reason you can't blend the two.

You just need to think up a good reason why the tech guys haven't completely destroyed the sword guys. Be it lack of resources, or maybe a limited number of them (dieing race from the past perhaps?) but either way as long as you work it nicely it can work in my oppinion.

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Such settings have already existed and been implemented. Take the PnP RPG Hawkmoon for instance. It happens roughly 1000 years after a nuclear total war. It has a fantasy settings, magic exists but relies on old technological devices or materials.

It can be very interesting if well implemented.

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Intesting idea there, here is a story idea I thought up that could fit into your world.

The world is destroyed in a devastating event, most of the world's population is killed and most of the tech and infrastructure destroyed. The surviving humans gradually aligned into two factions, techs who depended on technology to help them survive in the wasteland and the anti-techs who believe the world is destroyed by technology and all out to purge the world of advance technology.

Because the destruction is so total only small pockets of the world is able to sustain a high tech civilization (rebuilt factories, power plants etc). It take alot of effort to rebuild, as resources are hard to come by, attacks and sabotage by anti-techs also causes more problem.

The techs are heavily outnumbered by the anti-tech faction, being forced to live in a small area while the rest of the world are dominated by anti-tech thinking people. This along with the difficulty of reproducing anything that is technologically advance causes the tech faction to be in a de facto siege.

Now with this background, here are some story ideas for a RPG.

- The tech faction has discover a way to "heal" the world, to do so they will need accomplish several difficult tasks. Player will be one of many dispatched to accomplish it.

- Player is part of the anti-tech elites dispatched to spy and sabotage the tech faction from within. Player can choose to accomplish his mission helping in the defeat of tech faction or join the tech faction and help them in their survival.

- Player can be either tech or anti-tech faction and started off as a new recruit in one of the army, player got disgusted with the war after participating in it. Player realise that both factions are fighting over something both are not even clear on (the cause of the world's destruction). Player sets off to discover the truth and show it to the world, along the way characters from both factions join in to help player.

The anti-tech faction characters tend to be zealous, fervent and have a strong belief in their righteousness. The tech faction characters tend to be calculative, ruthless and cold, a result from the need to outthink, outfight and able to kill hundreds without batting an eye.

I do agree that it will be damn hard to balance a game in this kind of setting. But it will be interesting if done correctly.

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So no one would mind if a fantasy game included modern so long as it were well explained?

It's just personally (as a warhammer 40k player) whenever I see a thousand point orc army I cringe... it's as if... orcs aren't meant to be wielding machine guns. But I'm one person, and if modern elements wont drive away potential players I'll include it.

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a good cartoon for this was "Thundar the barbarian" the world in 1995 (aw its soo old) was recked when a comet pasted between earth and the moon, the atmostphere of earth was effected adn the moon cracked. the cartoon was set kinda post apocolips so men had gona back to caveman/medvil period and people had found new powers that were magic.
Some of the bad guys were mages others were just people who still used technology

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The Final Fantasys have been merging fantasy and sci fi elements for a while now, and they do pretty well. A bunch of other games have used it to good effect as well. I would avoid any plots where the main focus for the plot is tech against magic though. It's been done a fair few times now.

Whoops, wasn't trying to argue with you Si Hao, I wrote the above before I read your post.

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I can easily imagine a RTS in a pseudomedieval fantasy setting with a three side war (like in Starcraft) between:

1) Warlike commoners relying only on sheer numbers, valour and training, and organization and leadership (in flexible proportion). They would have unimpressive but cost efficient units, used as expendable cannon fodder in mass assaults after a carefully scheduled production.
For example: goblin nomad hordes, a rising fascist nation, a rebel alliance, a threatened empire.

2) An elite of sorcerers and heroes with great supernatural powers (even in their weakest representatives) but few in numbers. They would have very strong (but of course not invulnerable) units with a very high cost, micromanaged and defended one by one.
For example: elves or another exotic superior race (rare but not necessarily dying), cultists of a generous god, visitors from a more magical place.

3) A minority of high-tech combatants who have superior weapons and want to use them; . They would have a wide variety and power range of units, all somewhat expensive and/or overspecialized, requiring careful selection and appropriate deployment to be useful.
For example: a small kingdom supporting a scientific genius, marooned or colonizing spacefarers, very civilized lands with exclusive technological achievements.
There is a choice between a narrow and very useful development (like explosives and guns and artillery and rockets or robots or steam engines or cheap steel) or a well rounded moderate superiority in many fields (faster and bigger ships, unreliable artillery vs arrows, light slow aircraft vs ground-only forces, etc.)

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M. Night Shyamalan's "The Village" did this quite effectively.

<movie spoiler>

A small group of normal people, seemingly from late 1800's, survived and thrived in a small secluded village, out of which no travel was permitted to adjacent "towns", until events unfold which force one girl to make the journey. The audience later finds out that the people living in the village are actually herded in a small, protected wildlife reserve into which no *outside* access is permitted.

</movie spoiler>


It's a really great movie, if you are considering trying out this sort of genre-mixing, definitely give this movie a watch if you haven't already.

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Quote:
Original post by LorenzoGatti
I can easily imagine a RTS in a pseudomedieval fantasy setting with a three side war (like in Starcraft) between:

1) Warlike commoners relying only on sheer numbers, valour and training, and organization and leadership (in flexible proportion). They would have unimpressive but cost efficient units, used as expendable cannon fodder in mass assaults after a carefully scheduled production.
For example: goblin nomad hordes, a rising fascist nation, a rebel alliance, a threatened empire.

2) An elite of sorcerers and heroes with great supernatural powers (even in their weakest representatives) but few in numbers. They would have very strong (but of course not invulnerable) units with a very high cost, micromanaged and defended one by one.
For example: elves or another exotic superior race (rare but not necessarily dying), cultists of a generous god, visitors from a more magical place.

3) A minority of high-tech combatants who have superior weapons and want to use them; . They would have a wide variety and power range of units, all somewhat expensive and/or overspecialized, requiring careful selection and appropriate deployment to be useful.
For example: a small kingdom supporting a scientific genius, marooned or colonizing spacefarers, very civilized lands with exclusive technological achievements.
There is a choice between a narrow and very useful development (like explosives and guns and artillery and rockets or robots or steam engines or cheap steel) or a well rounded moderate superiority in many fields (faster and bigger ships, unreliable artillery vs arrows, light slow aircraft vs ground-only forces, etc.)


If I could humbly elaborate, it gives me a few ideas for a setting. All the game would happen on a single planet with three factions fighting :

1) Medieval inhabitants of the planet. They have towns, numerous soldiers, a medieval society complete with iron mining, smithing and so on. They are invaded by demons that latter happen to be of two distinct species. They have a fantasy view of the events : both demonic races use magic and want to destroy their land. Maybe will they manage to grasp some of other races concept.

2) A race competing with humans in interplanetary conquest. They use a different technology, it is unclear if they should be considered more advanced or just different. They have alien technologies and ideologies.

3) Your usual human race. Greedy of resources, space and energy. They come with big guns and armored vehicles.


Well, if you begin a campaign from the 1st race POV it could begin in a fantasy fashion, it could stay the same when they meet the 2nd race, the alien demons and would only switch to a mixed genre when humans come into play.

Anyway, just my two cents...

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Original post by CIJolly
The Final Fantasys have been merging fantasy and sci fi elements for a while now, and they do pretty well. A bunch of other games have used it to good effect as well. I would avoid any plots where the main focus for the plot is tech against magic though. It's been done a fair few times now.

Whoops, wasn't trying to argue with you Si Hao, I wrote the above before I read your post.


No worries [smile]

Anyway theres no magic in the story I draw out just plain guns vs swords

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It's just personally (as a warhammer 40k player) whenever I see a thousand point orc army I cringe... it's as if... orcs aren't meant to be wielding machine guns. But I'm one person, and if modern elements wont drive away potential players I'll include it.


It all depends on how you do it, Fallout for example could fall into the fantasy realm if you take it at face value dispite being in a post apocalyptic setting. It has Super Mutants (which for all intents and purposes look and act like orcs with big guns), Death Claws (big intelligent gecko's spawned by a biochemical agent in the wastes), Ghouls (created through mysterious high-radiation exposture and biochemical agents), and an assortment of slavers, drug dealers, techno-isolationists, vault dwellers, neo-post apocalyptic cults, etc.

Even if your game does have orcs, it doesn't mean you have to call them orc's. They could be hidious plague victims shunned from society, or psycotic ex-mental patient cannibals that wear the decaying remnants of their victims (and thus look green and hidious) while they troll the countryside for vittles. Essentially they would be Orcs, but would fit more into whatever setting you have in mind.

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I liked the way that Dune (the movie) and Star Wars dealt with it. There were reasons for the technology and reasons to use the 'low-tech' stuff.

Also, magic is one of those things where technology might not necessarily work that great against critters based of magic. Magic shields can easily protect against small bullets.

Magic and technology are one of those subjects where they just don't work well together. It is pretty difficult to justify using a sword when your opponent is shooting you 35 times before you get within the 5 feet that it would be necessary to use that sword, most of them being critical hits, which might incapacitate you.

I know people want to have them in the same world, but it is almost never implemented well and trying to explain it is definitely the wrong way to go and usually just ends up with the problem worse than it was before you tried to explain it. The best routes that I've seen are generally the 'Final Fantasy' route, where you've got both and it's just a matter of which one is best for the character.

My advice? Keep the magic where it belongs and keep the guns where they belong. Kinda like what happened with the Samurai - they got pretty obsolete when someone with 12 minutes instruction could easily kill a man who trained for his entire life. Skip the realism, just make the game fun and the mechanics will work themselves out.

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It has been done good many time
the main thing is try to make a original world that draws from both rather than what basicly looks like cliches randomly spliced together

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