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Stormforce

Finding a programmer

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How hard is it to find a programmer willing to work on a game you've designed For instance, i'm really into browser based MMORPG's. Like: www.zelderex.com www.ogame.org www.travian.com But i have lots of my own themes, i've done everything like work out all the costs all the buildings and units and everything else apart from programming. I can't progame and don't suppose i'll bother to learn (well i might learn some) But if i could show someone (a programmer) a detailed plan of a game do you think they'd be intrested in developing it. Will people only do it for a decent amount of $$$ (or £££ to me). I personnaly don't care about getting money out of a game, but if it was a pay for extras game, you'd probably end up with a bit left after server costs Basically i'm asking the programmers out there what it takes for them to want to work on a job, i.e if they like the look of the game they'd go for it. thanks

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From what I've seen, most hobbyist game programmers are also hobbyist game designers. As such, they will probably be more motivated to implement their own ideas than somebody elses.

That's not to say it's impossible to do what you're wanting, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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For programmers to work on someone elses game, the other person either needs money, or skills that the programmer doesn't have, eg, 2D or 3D artistic ability.

Otherwise, we'll just work on our own game designs which we, to a programmer, will have a lot of faith in.

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http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/default.asp

You can have professional programmers bid on your game here. Or parts of a game...

It might give you an idea how much something like this might cost. But if you aren't willing to spend a serious amount of money or the programmers don't think you are serious then you won't get any bids.

Programming is work...a lot of work. YOu have to pay for it.

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Quote:
Original post by Stormforce
How hard is it to find a programmer willing to work on a game you've designed

....


Considering I have a reasnobly close to finished BBG in need of graphics and I can't find a (decent) artist to do about 60 or so (small) images to save my life, I'd say the odds are good you won't find a decent programmer to make your game for you without paying them what their time is worth (or close to it). Nevertheless, that doesn't mean you can't try.

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As said above, you need to give something in return.
Why should a programmer work on your game instead of his own?

Answer: Because you're adding something to the deal he wouldn't otherwise get.
Basically, you can either offer to pay him for his time, or you can add one of your skills, that he doesn't have, to the mix. And coming up with game ideas isn't such a skill. Nor is fleshing it out or writing it down. What else can you do? Graphics? Sound? Pitching it to a publisher? Free dinners while working on it? [grin]

You need to keep in mind that every programmer has a bunch of ideas of his own, game designs that are more or less detailed, but which he'd love to work on.

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Quote:
Original post by Stormforce
How hard is it to find a programmer willing to work on a game you've designed?
Very hard.

Professional programmers generally want a fair bit of money to work on anything, and as already mentioned the majority of hobbiest developers are normally more interested in working in thier own ideas.


If you have a detailed design that looks interesting you might have a chance of finding someone; better again if you're also able to offer at least some amount of financial compensation. If you can offer some skill of your own to the project - design doesn't count, I'm talking asset (graphics, audio, whatever) creation, etc. - you'll increase your chances even further.

What this means is that unless you're offering a reasonable amount of money you'll need to be fairly free is presenting information about your idea in order to attract others, and you'll have to do the best possible job of presenting it. Any additional skills you're offering to the project yourself should also be mentioned.

Alternatively, if you do have a more significant amount of money you may be able to find someone through that alone; you could try getting bids through a site like RentACoder or could make a Help Wanted post stating how much you're offering and see if anyone takes it up.


So, as a breakdown:
- Always present yourself and the idea to the best of your abilities. This means spell/grammar-checking any documents or posts on the topic, putting in the effort to format things nicely, making any links in forum posts clickable, etc.
- Don't be overly secretive with your idea; you need to get it out there if you want to catch anyone's attention, and chances are extremely good that someone else out there has also had even your craziest ideas.
- Any financial compensation you can offer will help out, but still doesn't neccesarily guarantee finding someone.
- If you're offering some additional skills to the project yourself it will significantly increase your chances.
- Mockups or a functional prototype will often make a big difference in attracting people to a project; if you're able to create either (or both), it's probably worth the effort.

Hope that helps. [smile]

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thanks for the reply's

Another question?

Do developers generally only work for upfront money or do they mind doing deals like: once the game is up all profits made take away the server costs all profits go to them

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Those kind of deals are rarely done, and by rarely I mean never, and by never I mean almost never.

It's because many games aren't finished and even those that are don't earn well. A promise for an unknown sum of money that depends on many other factors isn't worth much at all.

The best way to get a programmer is thinking about what you can offer them, then offer it. Many programmers are enticed by the idea of working on the latest engine, or figuring out a new algorithm they haven't done before. Others still like the idea that they are fully in charge of the programming side of the creative process, the code becomes theirs and theirs alone and they like creating new code. There's also the fun of learning a new language or paradigm, being able to build apon your own knowledge in an area you lack and expand what you can do.

And in the end you can offer money, but you might not get many takers.

Unfortunately not many projects are like those above. They are old hat, things the programmer has already done that aren't interesting anymore. They are just grinding out code so that someone else can have their vision fulfilled. It's really not fun or exciting, which is what the hobby programmers are in it for. So if you can't offer them money, then you'll have to offer them fun and excitement. And a promise of money someday maybe is not money I'm afraid.

I hope this helps you.

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Quote:
Original post by Stormforce
Do developers generally only work for upfront money or do they mind doing deals like: once the game is up all profits made take away the server costs all profits go to them
If they're relying on other people (such as artists for example) as well they have no guarantee the project will be succesfully completed.
If the project is succesfully completed they have no guarantee that it will actually earn any money.

Would you except a cut of potential profits given that scenario?

Generally you'd need to offer at least some money upfront - probably with some sort of system in place where they get payed so much for meeting certain milestones in the project and a certain amount when they finish. Offering royalties from the finished product is all well and good, and if you can't afford to pay much will probably be expected, but it doesn't substitute for actual up-front pay. Exactly how that payment would work is between you and any programmer(s) you can convince to work with you.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
for this sort of game you wouldn't need artists anymore than what i can do myself

i'd be looking for someone that likes to code by his or herself i know games like this that make lots of money and only one person ever does the coding he created it all by himself and he updats it regulary all by himself

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
for this sort of game you wouldn't need artists anymore than what i can do myself

i'd be looking for someone that likes to code by his or herself i know games like this that make lots of money and only one person ever does the coding he created it all by himself and he updats it regulary all by himself


A purely text-based game doesn't get you very far...you'll still need some basic art. And a good artist is really the best way to do that.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
have you seen some of the games i posted, the artwork in them is very minimal and if i couldn't do it i know a person that does online artwork for free (graphix and so on)

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
have you seen some of the games i posted, the artwork in them is very minimal and if i couldn't do it i know a person that does online artwork for free (graphix and so on)


Maybe your right and I'm wrong but just looking at Trav...I can count at least 50+ images from just glancing at a handful of pages and assuming they are re-using the same images for every method of displaying. It's not as minimal as you think, I do believe. But don't take my word for it. Go out and Do...I could be wrong.

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It's the same on the programming end.

Experienced artists, especially those aware of game optimizations, also are not trivial to filter out and work with.

I.e., the programmer (regardless of skill level) may need highly optimized models/textures, eyeing low to medium price range.

Online artists (hobbists/beginners/architectural modelers) send him decent models but ten times the poly-count requirement.

Poor use of texture estate, or useage of different texture mapping method than required.

Composing professional(frustration contained) emails explaining the issues may take greater than an hour each time, especially if in other languages.

And they may not resolve.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
slow down

check ou zederex, that has 3'000 player and makes a decent profit, prove by the fact the guy running can afford to upgrade to a new server thats alot btter

The art in it is minimal you have some building pictures and some unit pitures but not much else

Ogame has just redon most of its art, its put up new building, research and ship pictures

Travain has a bit more art in it stuff like your village and the map would be harder to do, i it was thought about doing that kind of stuff

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Quote:
Original post by parasolstars
It's the same on the programming end.

Experienced artists, especially those aware of game optimizations, also are not trivial to filter out and work with.

I.e., the programmer (regardless of skill level) may need highly optimized models/textures, eyeing low to medium price range.

Online artists (hobbists/beginners/architectural modelers) send him decent models but ten times the poly-count requirement.

Poor use of texture estate, or useage of different texture mapping method than required.

Composing professional(frustration contained) emails explaining the issues may take greater than an hour each time, especially if in other languages.

And they may not resolve.


Ummm, I have to agree with AP. Models aren't related to web games in any real way (unless your taking 2d images of a model and using that) so poly-count is a non-issue. Same iwth texutre, etc.



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Quote:
Original post by Stormforce



For instance, i'm really into browser based MMORPG's.
Like:

www.zelderex.com
www.ogame.org
www.travian.com



You forgot www.runescape.com

This game usually has over 90 000 players playing at the same time,
and over 8 million accounts
:)

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