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jagguy

asp or php

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I notice some forums use php and others use asp to manage their system. I am a fan of php so i want to know why is asp used instead here and elsewhere over php. Does asp offer advantages over open source? Thank god perl wasn't used!

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Not all servers support PHP just as not all servers support ASP. Sometimes the developers of a piece of software are simply more familiar with one language over another.

ASP applications are also not necessarily closed source.

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Is there real advantage to asp over php other than availability , and what main servers don't use php?

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Often if you are writing a system for a client, they will request that you create it in a specific language.

I think ASP integrates with .NET languages, so if you have lots of .NET backend tools it might be useful. Also PHP is pretty slow (unless you have the Zend platform/optimizer on your sever) so its not as good for high-CPU-usage applications.


For example, if someone wanted a forum written for them, but they dont have any PHP coders, it will be hard for them to maintain the system, so they might ask for it to be written in ASP so their dotNet coders can maintain it.

Another example may be that you paid lots of money for your nice ASP server and dont want to admit that you could have just used an open-source system and saved yourself thousands of dollars, so you maintain a state of denial and stick with your inferior proprietary system for the sake of protecting your ego (Sorry, just having a jab at stupid bosses here, no offense intended to ASP).


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Don't forget that there are two totally different platforms that go by the name ASP: the "ASP Classic" family is now considered obsolete, at least by Microsoft; it was dominated by VBScript on the server side. ASP Classic is a very minimal programming environment and relies heavily on Microsoft's COM technology to add functionality and connect to databases, other programs, libraries, and so on.

ASP.NET is actually a totally different beast; you write your programs directly in a .Net language and they are executed as binary programs, not interpreted like ASP Classic. It's generally supposed to be faster, but also has significantly more bandwidth overhead when using more advanced features, and it is very easy to create horribly crippled and inefficient applications if you don't know what you're doing. ASP.NET also has a different development model and philosophy than ASP Classic and PHP.

ASP Classic was a pretty piss-poor platform, IMHO; the only real reason to use it is if you have a lot of code written in it already, or a lot of good ASP Classic programmers. GDNet falls into the category of lots-of-existing-code, I believe. ASP.NET is a monster and I'm fairly sure I'm going to decide to hate it one of these days. For now I merely distrust it and try to ignore the stink.


PHP is a very rapid-development language, but it's a lot like Perl in that it's mangled, inconsistent, fraught with just plain dumb pitfalls and minefields, and generally takes a lot of rote memorization before one can be an effective programmer. Its main strength is the vast scope of its standard libraries.


Also note that PHP can run on any of the major web (HTTP) servers out there, but ASP and ASP.Net only run on Microsoft's IIS. By extension, this also means they only run on Windows servers. PHP is portable; the ASPs are not. This is only really an interesting concern if you are looking to distribute your software (e.g. off-the-shelf forums software).


The advantages are pretty much purely subjective and circumstantial; if you know PHP, go with that; if you know a .Net language, go with ASP.NET; if you know VBScript or JScript, use ASP Classic.

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Quote:
Original post by jagguy
Is there real advantage to asp over php other than availability , and what main servers don't use php?


(classic) ASP does not have any known advantage over PHP except better COM support (and therefore much easier leveraging of COM components written for windows). For normal, non-com, web applications PHP was a much cleaner and slightly better supported choice. In fact, PHP was available on many more servers until Chilisoft released an ASP module for apache. Even then though, ASP is dead. ASP has not made any improvements since PHP was in version 3. Since then PHP 4 and 5 have come out and brought significant additional features to the table.

Of course .NET has come out and offers ASP.NET - which has virtually no significant relation to ASP except for the way code in embedded into aspx file files ... .NET is an awesome platform, and well worth learning IF you want to devote significant time to becomming a web programmer. If on the other hand you just want to write a few small pieces of code to spice up mostly static sites ... PHP is still superior (because you don't have to be a trained PHP developer to leverage it).

Just so you know, I work full time as a corperate .NET web developer (using C# and ASP.NET). I like it a lot. But I've had experience helping people from less formal backgrounds and I don't believe it is worth changing from PHP to ASP.NET unless / until you have a desire to focus more of your time on developing. If you are in fact a full time PHP developer and expert, then you also might not need / want to change - because over half of your skills would not transition in the short term.

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I have only done a little .net stuff but it looks like a hard profession to get into to be honest. You can't learn about .net in college to any great level so where do you have the time to train to do it?
Learning .net in your own time isn't going to get those must have few years experinece in .net jobs.


I prefer open source to be honest but never say never.

On a side note I really dislike perl as it is so messy compared to c++, and over 100 lines of code of perl isn't something I wish to debug or understand. With so many alternative newer web technologies around I can't see why you still want to purse perl.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
/slightly off topic
I'm going to try out Ruby on rails, which is steadily gaining popularity.

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Quote:
Original post by ApochPiQ
Also note that PHP can run on any of the major web (HTTP) servers out there, but ASP and ASP.Net only run on Microsoft's IIS.
Not true on either count. There are solutions in the form of Sun's Chilisoft ASP for ASP "classic", or Mono for ASP.NET. If you're using PHP, you'd probably be better off running it on top of ASP.NET using Phalanger.

I'm not sure about the concern about the lack of open-source software on the .NET side - the CLI which .NET is built around is an open standard, hence 3rd-party implementations away from Microsoft's own, such as Mono.

.NET is obscenely easy to get to grips with, given the high quality of the development tools and documentation. I especially don't see what "learning it in college" has to do with anything. [wink]

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The benefit of ASP over PHP is that ASP is much simpler.

PHP gives you horrible verbose errors like this:
Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_VARIABLE, expecting '(' in welcome.php on line 2


Whereas ASP gives you nice, simple errors:
Provider error '80004005'
Unspecified error



;)

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