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MARS_999

OpenGL SM4.0 and OpenGL

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I seen now the info on the Geforce 8800 is out and I noticed that one can now have 128 textures per pass vs. 16? So I am assuming this would relieve the need for texture atlases? What is everyone elses thoughts on SM4.0 support and OpenGL... Let the ideas flow.

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I have a feeling that in the last months OpenGL isn't developing forward. Since Khronos took it in their hand, there are no life signs. So a forecast is a bit difficult.

And as someone on this forum said that glsl is further than DX9 HLSL(i can't deny nor i can agree, cause i have not enough knowledge of HLSL), cause smX.X is bound to DX. But if it so than we can only hope that the new references will come out as soon as possible.

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theres a thread at www.opengl.org about the new extensions coming to opengl stuff like geometry shaders + texture arrays, texture buffers etc. (no need to have vista to play with them as well :) )
though theres not gonna be much info out until the geforce8800 comes out (which is this month i believe, so info should be soon forthcoming)

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Quote:
Original post by MARS_999
I seen now the info on the Geforce 8800 is out and I noticed that one can now have 128 textures per pass vs. 16?

The G80 has 128 stream processors, which does not mean, you can use 128 textures. It has 64 texture units, which provide 32 pixels per clock 2xAF filtered. I am not sure, if that means you can use 32 textures now...

Quote:
So I am assuming this would relieve the need for texture atlases? What is everyone elses thoughts on SM4.0 support and OpenGL... Let the ideas flow.

NVidias launch demos are written in OpenGL, so we can expect the extensions are already done :)

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Quote:
Original post by Enrico

NVidias launch demos are written in OpenGL, so we can expect the extensions are already done :)


Reasons why I love Nvidia.

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On of the beautiful things about OpenGL is that it can be extended by vendors and other parties directly, which allows them to expose new functionality at their whim, rather than with the next DirectX release.

As for the "no progress" comment someone made about GL now that Khronos has taken the reigns, I think thats to be expected. Khronos has already made public their general plans to alter the API pretty radically in GL 3.0. Their basic plan is to strip out all the unnecesary fluff from the hardware/runtime layer leaving only a very lightweight, do-it-the-fastest-way-only, aimed at modern 3D hardware core of OpenGL. They'll move a compatibility layer with old GL as more of a software library - entirely seperate from the core GL functionality. This is the same approach that the very successful OpenGL|ES has taken, and the same general approach that Microsoft has taken with Direct3D 10.

It'll take some time, but GL 3 will be worth the wait IMHO.

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Just confirmed these added ext to the 8800 drivers release 95

gl_ext_framebuffer_blit
gl_ext_framebuffer_multisample
gl_NV_framebuffer_multisample_coverage
wgl_nv_GPU_AFFINITY

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The following was posted on the OGL forum:

ttp://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=014831


Quote:


GL_ES
GL_EXTX_framebuffer_mixed_formats
GL_EXT_Cg_shader
GL_EXT_bindable_uniform
GL_EXT_depth_buffer_float
GL_EXT_draw_buffers2
GL_EXT_draw_instanced
GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB
GL_EXT_geometry_shader4
GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters
GL_EXT_gpu_shader4
GL_EXT_packed_float
GL_EXT_shadow_funcs
GL_EXT_texture_array
GL_EXT_texture_buffer_object
GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc
GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc
GL_EXT_texture_integer
GL_EXT_texture_sRGB
GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent
GL_EXT_transform_feedback
GL_EXT_ycbcr_422
GL_NVX_conditional_render
GL_NV_depth_buffer_float
GL_NV_framebuffer_multisample_ex
GL_NV_geometry_shader4
GL_NV_gpu_program4
GL_NV_gpu_shader4
GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object
GL_NV_texture_compression_latc
GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc
GL_NV_transform_feedback
GL_OES_conditional_query
WGL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB
WGL_EXT_pixel_format_packed_float
WGL_NV_gpu_affinity


And from 'cass' (Mgr. at Nvidia):
Quote:

One of the traditional NVIDIA OpenGL Extensions docs is being readied and should be on developer.nvidia.com Real Soon Now.

We'll be following up with Cg 2.0 support for the new programmability shortly thereafter.

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Quote:

One of the traditional NVIDIA OpenGL Extensions docs is being readied and should be on developer.nvidia.com Real Soon Now.

We'll be following up with Cg 2.0 support for the new programmability shortly thereafter.

Hmmm, Cg is available from within DX as well as OGL, right? (Never really played with Cg, so not sure)

Does this mean we'll get geometry shaders and everything in DX9 by that route?

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yes u can use cg with directx
though as theres gonna be no more releases of directx for winXP, sm4.0 wont be available with winXP with directx (only opengl) unless MS have a change of heart + release d3d10 for winXP (not likely)

fear not, vista is coming out janurary30 + SM4.0 will available then under directx

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Quote:
Original post by griffin2000
...
GL_NVX_conditional_render ?
...
GL_OES_conditional_query ?


any information on those 2 available yet?
conditional_query sounds extremly interesting...

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These plus the GS are interesting to me

ext_texture_array
nv_depth_buffer_float

Now from the sounds of it with the texture array would this allow a simpler mosaic but instead you use 3D textures? And this will allow for mipmapping and higher quality of filtering?

And the depth buffer float, I am assuming this will allow for better quality shadows as the depth buffer doesn't clamp 0-1 now and should allow for a great precision? Would this get rid of jagged edges on shadows?

Looks like this card is here today already. :)

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Quote:
Original post by MARS_999
These plus the GS are interesting to me

ext_texture_array
nv_depth_buffer_float

Now from the sounds of it with the texture array would this allow a simpler mosaic but instead you use 3D textures? And this will allow for mipmapping and higher quality of filtering?

It allows to bind an array of textures to a sampler for a shader (mhm, is this confusing? :D )

Quote:
And the depth buffer float, I am assuming this will allow for better quality shadows as the depth buffer doesn't clamp 0-1 now and should allow for a great precision? Would this get rid of jagged edges on shadows?

This is a depth buffer with more precision than [0,1].

See the thread at opengl.org for more information about all the extensions. Mr. Cass from Nvidia has posted there, too ;)

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Quote:
Original post by Enrico
Quote:
Original post by MARS_999
These plus the GS are interesting to me

ext_texture_array
nv_depth_buffer_float

Now from the sounds of it with the texture array would this allow a simpler mosaic but instead you use 3D textures? And this will allow for mipmapping and higher quality of filtering?

It allows to bind an array of textures to a sampler for a shader (mhm, is this confusing? :D )

Quote:
And the depth buffer float, I am assuming this will allow for better quality shadows as the depth buffer doesn't clamp 0-1 now and should allow for a great precision? Would this get rid of jagged edges on shadows?

This is a depth buffer with more precision than [0,1].

See the thread at opengl.org for more information about all the extensions. Mr. Cass from Nvidia has posted there, too ;)


No the array idea isn't, but if I want to pack 32 2D textures into this 3D array and have it act like a 2d texture instead of texture atlases. I am doing this now and has its limits. I will check out opengl.org

The great thing about this for OpenGL is you can now have DX10 gfx on XP without the need for Vista! So if game developers want to have a large platform to keep developing on get in line. Once the 8600/8200 comes out more users will have this ability on XP. Really bright future for OpenGL IMO, now I can hold off getting Vista! :) Well until Gears of War is out, if Microsoft forces you to have Vista like Halo2...

[Edited by - MARS_999 on November 9, 2006 9:51:22 AM]

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Well the beast is here and here is what I have so far...

Cubemaps 8192x8192
3DTextures 2048x2048x2048

I posted the gl info to delphi3d so hopefully Tom updates it, for a full complete listing.

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Quote:
Original post by ze moo
Quote:
Original post by griffin2000
...
GL_NVX_conditional_render ?
...
GL_OES_conditional_query ?


any information on those 2 available yet?
conditional_query sounds extremly interesting...

/oops
looks like the GL_NVX_conditional_render extension's been in the drivers for quite
some time already (at least since 2004)

there's even a demo in the nvidia sdk ...

GL_OES_conditional_query seems to be the "approved" version of this extension
(pretty cool, since you can render based on an occlusion query result without
having to wait for the result in the client :)

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If anyone wants to try out the new features without spending alot of $$$ on a new card you can always download NVEmulate from http://developer.nvidia.com

Performance will be bad but atleast you'll be able to test things and even implement and verfiy your shaders without spending alot of money on new hardware.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by MARS_999
3DTextures 2048x2048x2048


Can that be correct? It's over 8 gig, in what memory would such a beast be placed?

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Well, if you had the resources you could texture over the PCIe bus [grin]

However the point is these are just the limits of what the card can do based on the hardware, apart from custom things you simply wont use such resources.

Besides, give it a few years and 8gig on a gfx card won't seem that far fetched [wink] (ATI's high end R600 is rumored to have 1gig of GDDR4 ram on a 512bit bus)

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Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by MARS_999
3DTextures 2048x2048x2048


Can that be correct? It's over 8 gig

Yes, however 2048x2x2 is just 8 kilo.

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