Hey all, my first post here. I thought of a game that could be a success, so I thought about it a lot, and decided to start by typing out lots of stuff and working it out as a mod at first to see if it´s any fun -about 50% done, using the Warcraft 3 editor, which is amazing. I am looking for feedback on the game itself, and whether or not I am doing the right thing working on the mod instead of getting into programming, etc -I do know basic programming, but it will be all almost impossible to do this by myself, as it is quite a big project. Introduction Basically, my idea is an extremely dynamic and fast paced RTS game mixed with some RPG. Almost like an arcade/RTS. I am a huge RTS fan and I thought "what if I take the features I like best about my favourite games and blend them into something unique?". My goal is game with simple rules, but quite deep in terms of ways to play. Features -Random victory conditions. Your victory condition is unknown to the opponent. Once a player is close to winning, a message is shown to the other player telling him that he must do something quick or he loses, but no mention of the victory condition -how the enemy is about to win- is made. Bluffing and guessing are incorporated to RTS in a clear way here. -Dynamic "conversion-based" system. To use most buildings you must have them converted to your side. To convert a buildings heroes have a channeled ability. At the end of the channeling time, buildings close to the hero will become yours. -"Fast start", meaning that the action starts immediately. No traning peons or building houses. -2 races with 12 plus heroes each. One race is an alliange of Undead and demons, and the other, the good guys, Nature and allies. This pretty much doesn´t matter at all -no story or background for heroes or races-, it´s just to group the heroes into "themes". -A somewhat complex hero system. Heroes can be played in a variety of ways. Innate, learnable, bonus abilities; and type-of-hero and individual bonuses; 22 specialities. Dynamic physical, dexterity, mental, and charisma values which make the heroes more unique. -10 types of creatures to aid you achieve your victory condition, can be trained at a building. Creatures go up in rank as they stay alive for more time and kill heroes and other creatures. -Basic, advanced, and ancient types of items. Each of the types is sold at a different building. There are items that are specifically for creatures. -Thought-out map layouts that gives way to many different ways to start/approach the early game. A Variety of buildings to carry out different strats. -Possibility of a "Nomada" mode, in which each hero starts the game at a random position on the map. -The idea is that it would be a microintensive, competitive, 1v1 game. Gameplay -At the start of the game you are presented with a brief introduction, your victory condition, a timer, and a bunch of heroes you can choose from. The timer will show something like "0/2 heroes", or "2/2 heroes" depending on the number of heroes you have chosen. You can pick/unpick any hero. You start the game with 2 heroes and a bonus that you choose. If you have only chosen, let´s say, 1 hero, the system will choose the other 1 randomly. You pick the heroes you think are best for achieving the victory condition. You also plan out in a hurry how to approach the game, how you will start, and your basic strat. -Once the timer runs out, the game starts for real. You start with the 2 heroes close together -a few other units also depending on the initial bonus you chose- at a corner of the map, and carry out your first moves. The possibities are many, though you´ll likely want to convert a few buildings at first. Most buildings start out as neutral, waiting for players to convert them. -Basically, you will try to convert buildings and stop the opponent from doing so. The problem is that you cannot convert all buildings at all times: you must decide which buildings to convert. For example, converting one of the enemy buildings is much better than converting a neutral one -you are messing up his plan-, but it can also be better defended. The variants here are a lot. Some of the buildings might be far away from every one of your heroes. You also must decide whether to divide the heroes/forces or not. -Once you have gathered a certain amount of GXP -group experience, the lone resource in the game-, you can choose a 3rd hero, which shows up on the map with the level of your lowest-level hero -from the 3 starting ones-, so it´s important to try to get the 3rd hero asap. -Once a hero dies, it revives automatically for free, but it does take time to revive. A dying hero also drops the top-left item in its inventory. (this might be removed) -Once a hero acquires an item -picks it up or buys it-, it is stuck in its inventary and cannot be moved. Creatures can also carry items. Once a creature dies, all of its items are dropped. -Once a hero reaches level 5, you can choose an speciality for it. --The "command radius" -CR- is a circle around a hero that can be made visible or not. Buildings must be inside the CR of a hero to be converted, and there are hero abilities that affect those allies inside the CR. Hero System Heroes have 4 characteristics, that determine the value of a bunch of attributes: -Physical: --> One more item slot available every 4 points. --> +1.5 damage per point. --> +0.15 hit point regeneration per second per point. --> +60 max hit points per point. -Dexterity: --> -5 seconds to conversion every 5 points. --> +5 to speed per point. --> +1 armor every 2 points. --> +0.05 attack speed per point. -Mental: --> +20 maximum mana per point. --> +0.6 to mana regeneration/second per point. --> -3 IXP to heroes that kill him per point. (IXP stands for individual experience, which determines when a hero levels up) --> +1 IXP when using a spell per point. -Charisma: (the point of charisma is that you come make heroes work purely as support, relying on other units to do the work) --> +1 GXP/second per point. (GXP stands for group experience, the only resource in the game, which can be obtained in a variety of ways) --> +2 damage, +10 speed, +30 hit points to allied creatures on the map every 2 points. --> -2 seconds to revival time per point. --> +2 IXP per building converted per point. Heroes start with different base values for both characteristics and attributes. They level up by obtaining IXP -using abilities, converting buildings, killing units, and trading GXP for IXP-, visiting the Old Man -a "building" that improves the level of heroes automatically for free, but just once per hero in the whole game...so you must decide if you want to level up a hero from 2 to 3 and gain an advantage early on, or wait to level it from 9 to 10 for instance, which takes much more IXP (it´s one of the ideas I am proud of and hope it will work well)- , completing certain missions, and performing certain tasks. Also, every hero gets an individual bonus and other one related to the type it belongs to: combat heroes produce GXP when killing an enemy hero; leaders have a command radius 50% larger than others; mages have 25% resistance to spells and have an innate ability that temporarily gives them some physical points; and support heroes can drop items or give them to other heroes -the rest of heroes are stuck with an item once it is acquired. Once a hero dies, the item in the first position of the inventory slot is dropped and anyone can pick it up. Inventories are not visible for the opponent. Heroes revive automatically, for free, but they do take time to revive. They can be revived instantly by paying some GXP -more for high-level heroes. Max level of heroes is 12. Adding up all levels of abilities learned, it gives you 14-15 levels. I have over 70 pages typed out so I won´t bother you more now. Thanks for reading. [Edited by - unju on November 17, 2006 5:37:30 AM]

Cool. You said you were doing it as a warcraft 3 mod. What are the legalities of that?

I am not sure what you mean. I see lots of people doing mods with the editor; I figure there are no legalities, I´d just use it to show if the game concept is fun, and maybe try to convince people to help me later on. I just cannot convince anyone without a demo.

I think you've got a very good design outline there. It seems well thought out, organized, focused, and most importantly, of a realistic enough scope that a small team could actually create it.

Quote:
I am looking for feedback on the game itself, and whether or not I am doing the right thing working on the mod instead of getting into programming, etc -I do know basic programming, but it will be all almost impossible to do this by myself, as it is quite a big project.

I think making the mod is a great idea. As you said, you're using it as a demo, correct? The above poster might have thought you were going to try and sell the mod commercially, which would be illegal, but if you're just using the mod as a demo or for gameplay testing then that's totally fine; you can do almost anything in a mod as long as you don't try to sell it.

Anyway, I think making the mod is important because it seems like you do have a well thought out design plan, and being able to implement most of your ideas in a WC3 mod will show other potential team members that you are capable of contributing a lot to the project. There are a lot of people who say "I can't program or create art but I can design", who can't actually design at all and end up just trying to get everyone else to do the work for them; if you can prove that you're not one of those people, then you'll have a much easier time finding a programmer and artist to help out. And if all else fails, you'll at least have an awesome WC3 mod under your name.

The design seems pretty clear and balanced, but there are some things I didn't quite grasp, like the details on GXP. You say that GXP is the only resource but that you buy troops and items from buildings; do you pay for them with GXP? Also, where does GXP come from? Does it just gradually increase over time, and possibly you also get it from killing things? And is it divided up among each little subgroup that each hero is leading, or is GXP just one big counter for your whole team? I like the idea that there isn't a lot of resource management, but (and you may have already thought of this) it would probably be good to have certain buildings' primary purpose be generating GXP. Even though the actual tediousness of dealing with peasants and gold mines can detract from a fast-paced game, the fact that you need to go find and protect gold mines is an interesting tactical decision. There should be a way for a losing player, who's running low on GXP, to make a tactical strike and take back a big chunk of GXP generation from the winning player, otherwise the winner of the game will be decided too early in the match, with the endgame just being boring with no surprises.

Thanks for the elaborate reply and for reading the design outline, makeshiftwings.

I think if the mod turns out to be fun then more people would naturally come in to play it, which means rumour would spread and hopefully one day this can turn into a whole new game. Hey, one can dream!

GXP can be obtained in a variety of ways. Heroes produce GXP periodically just by being on the map; some of them may be worse fighters but produce more GXP, etc. Combat heroes -one of the 4 types of heroes- produce certain GXP every time they kill a hero. GXP fountains -buildings- around the map also produce GXP every second to the player that controls them. Last but not least, some hero abilities and specialities improve GXP rate, and also some items. Let me give an example of an speciality to show what I mean:

-Fighter:
Pros--> +2 to Physical, +2 to Dexterity
Cons--> -1 GXP/second, +8 seconds to conversion time.
Bonus--> +2 IXP every time the hero attacks.
Abilities-->
1)Berserk- the hero is healed for 5 hit points every time he is attacked, passive effect; if its cast, he is healed for 15 seconds every time he is attacked, lasts for 10 seconds, with 30 second cooldown.
2)Pride- +15 damage when the hero attacks others of higher level than him, can be active half the time.

GXP can be used to speed up hero revivals, train creatures, buy items, pay for some upgrades, and exchange for IXP so heroes level up more quickly -with a penalty.

Thanks for the positive reply, Randy.

I always thought RTS devs could do more with victory conditions. If they have not, it must be because it did not work properly, so I am unsure about the random, unknown victory conditions.

Oh, no big armies in this game hehe, sorry. It´s quite "small scale".