I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

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Started by LessBread December 06, 2006 02:43 PM

57 comments, last by asm_fsm 17 years, 4 months ago

745

December 06, 2006 05:35 PM

Quote:Original post by Talroth
Quote:Original post by Trapper Zoid
Quote:Original post by KaptainKomunist
The only truly stable place to build the tower is the Canadian wilderness. Free from political, geographical, and climate instabilities.

But given a space elevator needs to be tethered to something in geosynchronous orbit (more precisely a large object slightly futher out so the centre of mass is in geosynchronous orbit), wouldn't that mean the base would have to be close to the equator?

Thats one type, look up space fountain. They can be made of less strong materials, but require a large power source to keep up.

As for why go to the moon rather than just orbit? Ever try to work in orbit? not fun, 0 grav kind of sucks. An area where, if not full gravity, at least having a bit makes work a LOT easier. Also there ARE minerals and stuff on the moon. We can use solar smelters up there to refine stuff, and no need to worry about pollutions as, well, there isn't an atmosphere TO pollute,...

No atmosphere to pollute, but I'm sure there'll be hell to pay if the pollution starts to be visible from Earth.

griffenjam

193

December 06, 2006 06:26 PM

There's only one planet in this system that it's really worth looking at for a base and that's Venus.

The ultra-low gravity of the Moon would cause problems for people that stay there longer than a year, it would be just a larger ISS, totally dependant on the Earth with no way for people to actually live there.

The low gravity of Mars has the same drawback, but the extreme travel time to get there would make short duration stays less feasible. There's a high possibility of it being a one way trip as once you adjust to being there going back to Earth (3 times more gravity) might kill you.

Venus is very close to the same mass as Earth is, so there is likely to be few to no long term health issues involved in living there. Also, you would be able to come back to Earth after you made the transition. The drawback being that of all the rocky plants Venus has the most hostile environment.

"The paths of glory lead but to the grave." - Thomas GrayMy Stupid Blog My Online Photo Gallery

LessBread

1,415

Author

December 06, 2006 06:34 PM

Venus: Atmosphere

Quote:
Venus has an extremely thick atmosphere, which consists mainly of carbon dioxide and a small amount of nitrogen. The pressure at the planet's surface is about 90 times that at Earth's surface—a pressure equivalent to that at a depth of 1 kilometer under Earth's oceans. The enormously CO2-rich atmosphere generates a strong greenhouse effect that raises the surface temperature to over 400 °C. This makes Venus' surface hotter than Mercury's, even though Venus is nearly twice as distant from the Sun and receives only 25% of the solar irradiance.

I think a surface temperature 4 times the boiling point of water is a major non-starter.

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man

parasolstars

100

December 06, 2006 06:39 PM

No I think he was told there are Iraqis there and maybe Ala on Mars

Quote:Original post by Programmer One
Maybe somebody from NASA told Bush that there is oil there.

griffenjam

193

December 06, 2006 06:42 PM

I'm not saying that it wouldn't take a large amount of work. Venus is the prime example of a runaway greenhouse effect. First you would have to thin the atmosphere just to make it so the pressure wouldn't kill you, then you would have to change it's composition so that it wouldn't hold on to heat as well.

The difference is that the gravity problems on the Moon and on Mars are things that can never be fixed. Hawking made his statement with the point of preserving mankind in the Event that the Earth were rendered unliveable and it's unlikely that a base on the Moon or Mars will ever be able to be totally independant of help from Earth, or even that humans would be able to live there for a non-trivial amount of time.

It would take more money and time to set up a base on Venus, but once you did it could be self supporting and be an actual colony with families and cities and stuff, not just one enclosed base with a rotating staff.

"The paths of glory lead but to the grave." - Thomas GrayMy Stupid Blog My Online Photo Gallery

ROBERTREAD1

100

December 06, 2006 06:57 PM

The money would be better spent by the people who earnt it. Lower the extortion rate and give taxpayers a break.

Diodor

517

December 06, 2006 06:57 PM

Hmm, the crush depth of a Seawolf class nuclear attack submarine is 750 m - Venus' atmosphere would crush them like the tin cans they are. That being said, Venus is prety cozy at about 30-50 kms of height. With a pressure of a few atmospheres, a temperature of about 100 degrees C, and 300km/h winds, it sounds like the perfect plan for a five week balloon trip. The sulfuric acid haze might obscure the perspective though.

Titan is far more fun. If one gets a scuba gear that can insulate well enough from the deep cold, due to a combination of heavy atmosphere and tiny gravity it is very possible to strap wings and fly away by arms power only. :)

diogames.com

Nypyren

12,313

December 06, 2006 07:01 PM

Doesn't Venus also have the problem where it's bombarded by Solar wind/rays pretty hard?

The moon is in tidal lock with the earth, which means if you construct solar collectors at the poles, you can put factories on the far side of the moon and pollute as much as you want and nobody on Earth would be able to see the mess you make.

LessBread

1,415

Author

December 06, 2006 07:03 PM

Quote:Original post by griffenjam
I'm not saying that it wouldn't take a large amount of work. Venus is the prime example of a runaway greenhouse effect. First you would have to thin the atmosphere just to make it so the pressure wouldn't kill you, then you would have to change it's composition so that it wouldn't hold on to heat as well.

The difference is that the gravity problems on the Moon and on Mars are things that can never be fixed. Hawking made his statement with the point of preserving mankind in the Event that the Earth were rendered unliveable and it's unlikely that a base on the Moon or Mars will ever be able to be totally independant of help from Earth, or even that humans would be able to live there for a non-trivial amount of time.

It would take more money and time to set up a base on Venus, but once you did it could be self supporting and be an actual colony with families and cities and stuff, not just one enclosed base with a rotating staff.

Would the payloads we sent to Venus survive the acid in the upper atmosphere?

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man

griffenjam

193

December 06, 2006 07:10 PM

Quote:Original post by ROBERTREAD1
The money would be better spent by the people who earnt it. Lower the extortion rate and give taxpayers a break.

The problem with "What If?" scenarios is that they have no credibility until they actually happen, reguardless of that I'll use one anyways. As Hawking points out, one stray rock in space could be the end of all mankind. The more we are involved in space the more we are likely to be able to prevent this, that being the case isn't the money spent on this kind of thing worth it if it saves the live of everyone on Earth?

Or, if the Earth is destroyed isn't it worth it to have a ready made planet to flee to?

Also, keep in mind that not all money spent on space produces no returns....are you forgetting VELCRO!!!!111oneonetwo? Technology developed for the space program seeps into our lives and raises the quality of life for everyone, so it's not like you're throwing your tax money down the drain.

"The paths of glory lead but to the grave." - Thomas GrayMy Stupid Blog My Online Photo Gallery

I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

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