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juliefionaroberts

John Carmack

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Honestly, I''d like to know how good he is ? and how long it take to get at this level ? I am looking forward at serious reply .. PS: I have a lot of respect for him, and what he do .. it''s just I am curious and wondering how good we need to be to create great 3d engine ...

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Personally, I think that JC is the best graphics programmer in the industry. He is always at the frontier of whats possible. He released his first game, which was an RPG, while still in high school! To get anywhere near his level of genious, you''ll have to work bloody hard, and that is what he has done. To make a really good 3D engine, you need to be really good, and I mean good. There are but a few people in the industry that can.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Hey, im 13... and still in school... and im learning C++... its pretty hard whilst trying to learn other stuff that is different but means the same thing...
I Really Want to learn C++ and am finding it difficult since i dont have 24/7 to learn it!
but i guess ill have to try my best...
(* and try to beat JC >:D *)

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Well...

It depends really, you could be of average intelligence and work your bollocks off for nigh on 10 years to get to his level of experience/expertise.

Or, you could be a certified genius and pick up good engine programming in a few months.

I know which one he is, and I know which one I am (and they are not the same)

-Mezz

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I don''t really think it''s that simple
I mean you can develop your intelligence. If you live in a dark cellar and start to learn maths you''ll probably be quite "stupid".

It''s pretty much about how you think, how long it''ll take for you to form a clear picture of something you try to learn. You know those "AHH, Now i get it all" moments

First it feels too damn hard and suddenly you get the whole thing.. dunno, just my 2 cents.



''''2+2=5 for extremely large values of 2.''''

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Guest Anonymous Poster
what was the name of that RPG game? all games that i know of that carmack done is keen, wolf, doom and kwejk

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I forget what the name was now, it''s in a interview that PCG had with him a while ago now ( I think ), and I''ve got them all stashed in a big box in the attic. So no, I don''t sorry.

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It doesn''t take that long to learn C++. I''m 15 and in high school. I learned the main functions of C++ in 30 minutes(no BS)
and the rest(classes,pointers,etc...) in a weekend. It''s not that hard. Make sure you have a good book though. And as far as 3D Engines you don''t have to be some super genius like JC. Just put your mind to it. I learned half of OpenGL in two weeks. I just need to read the shadow tuturial and I''ll be set. Anyone can do it. Trust me.

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Heh, cooldaddyk, it''s not really that simple. I''ve been using Pascal since 1990, so learning C++ wasn''t too hard. My first (and only) cpp programme was my 3D engine, and I just learned as my engine progressed. So I''ve been working on it like 2 months so far, and have a pretty decent terrain engine.

Now, I think we shouldn''t all try to be "like Carmack". The guy is awesome, but if we all follow, then we''ll just all be copy-cats, and that''s not as cool as the genius at the forefront. Don''t be jealous -- that''s nonproductive.

You do, in fact, need to be smart to be like Carmack. It''s, in part, about intelligence, which you either have or you don''t. And Carmack isn''t the only one that good. Go to Ken Silverman''s site ( http://www.advsys.net/ken ), the guy who made Duke3D. He took a break from professional programming to go to college, and now he''s back. Let''s see what he can do Also, Tim Sweeney (Unreal) is up there. And perhaps several others (like the guy at Monolith).

I think what you need to do high end 3D engines is: intelligence, enthusiasm, and the ability to keep a huge project in mind. But remember, everybody can''t be a Carmack. It''s like, everybody can''t be an Einstein. Not even with x years of 24/7 work, where x is any real measure of time

Just my take on this. Oh crap, why am I even wasting time on this; I should be working on Quake 10: Murder Simulator (j/k)

------------------------
CRAZY_DUSIK* pCrazyDuSiK;
pCrazyDuSiK->EatMicroshaft(MS_MUNCH_BILL_GATES | MS_CHEW_BILL_GATES);

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Hey, interesting thread....

Well, what I think it takes is a lot of trust in yourself... you gotta know that what you''re doing is leading in the right direction. Sure, JC is a great programmer and he''s on top, but he developed one technology (BSP trees, well he didn''t develope them, but you know what I mean), and it seems like he''s sticking 2 them. If everybody follows, we''ll end up having 10 Quake 3 engines with diffrent names... common guys, start your brains and think of something diffrent!

The thing I don''t like about ID software is that they are so damn unfunny... they code day and night, and it somehow doesn''t seem like they''re having fun doing it.. Look at Lionhead studios.. I my point of view, the best development company... It must be soo much fun to work there, and for sure it is productive... well maybe not as much as ID software, but I think you get the point...

I''m 15 now, I learned to code C++, MFC, Opengl and a few tricks within a year, maybe a bit less cause I had a few breaks and not I''m coding a Leveleditor for our game that should (and I will, I know it will, I beleive in it ;p) be as good (even better? ;p) than Serious Editor (Man, I love those videos, I keep on watching them day for day). I really beleive in it... Rarebyte is going to make Paradigm a kick as game, just like Quake 3 Arena, Half-Life Unreal & Co are/were.... :o)

ok, before I get too sentimental, I''ll go back to complete my ASE file loader rewrite, including Animations and so on ;o)

good luck juliefionaroberts!
cya,
Phil

Visit Rarebyte!
and no!, there are NO kangaroos in Austria (I got this questions a few times over in the states

RAW!

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You know what though? I went to GDC 2000, and at one point, I saw him(JC) walking around the expo.(he was on a break or something). I walked up to him, and we conversed for a short while. He''s just a regular guy. He''s not some dark demented genius with a passion for ODEs, FFTs, and mind-numbing parts of 4D linear algebra.(Yeah, I''m exaggerating, but what the hell.)
He didn''t look like anybody special. Hell, I wouldn''t have recognized him if he didn''t have his badge on. I don''t think we should treat him like he invented 3D graphics. Yes, he''s very intelligent, and he knows what he''s doing, but remember, he didn''t code Wolf, Doom, or Quake by himself. The art team at ID deserves a lot of credit, as well as people like Michael Abrash(now at Micro$oft, I think) who contributed a lot to Quake 1. Anybody know American McGee? or John Romero? They all worked on these great games too you know...
He''s "popular" in the gaming/game programming community because he realized the potential of taking a 2D genre(side scrollers), and adding another dimension. Anyway, enough of my rant.
Tim

P.S. JC, if you happen to be reading this, I''m the short kid with my jaw on the floor, who was babbling at you for 5 min about god knows what...

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Of course we shouldn''t treat him like he invented 3d graphics; he didn''t. I believe Micro$oft did with a flight simulator before Windows was created.
I could be wrong here, but from my understanding, Quake''s success was due in large part to Carmack''s ingenuity and Abrash''s code optimization and assembly. Now, American McGee left iD and made his own game, "American McGee''s ''Alice''" (personally, I think working your name into the title of a game is a little egotistical, but that''s not the point). That game has the most ridiculous system requirements I have ever seen on a game. From what I hear, the gameplay sucks eggs right now, just like UnReal and Half-Life, and will continue to suck until they release a patch. Also, it uses the Quake3 engine. Why is that so special? Sure, I guess it takes some talent to code all of the perfection of Q3 into oblivion, but it''s nothing worthy of praise.

Romero left iD and made Daikatana. I personally have never played that game, as I have been told that there is a huge-ass bug in it that ION Storm refuses to fix. It seems to be a laughing stock of the industry right now .. just like Blood 2.

Are you seeing a pattern here?

I think one person who needs to be mentioned is Paul Steed, the Martyr of iD Software. Without his breast fetish, the world would not have the Crackwhore PIM or that sickeningly erotic self-groping animation for the "Iron Maiden" in Quake2. Sure, his work isn''t really obvious, but the nerds of the world thank him for getting us through those lonely nights of fragging JeffK wannabes.

I think Abrash lost most of his stature after OpenGL became the norm, but I must say that Tim Sweeney is a logical comparison to Carmack. I mean .. UnReal came out of nowhere and if it were not for iD''s reputation and having a homefield (first-person shooters) advantage, Epic and iD would be neck-to-neck.

One more thing ... Carmack is a genius, but only a graphics genius. He has done one or two human-esque things that some would consider blatant violations of reasoning ... like forgetting that not everyone has a T1 connection (Quake ran fine on his system when it was made ... no surprise, because he had a T1. Not so for the consumer ... whoops).

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Of course we shouldn''t treat him like he invented 3d graphics; he didn''t. I believe Micro$oft did with a flight simulator before Windows was created.


Are you serious?! Geez...

While Bill still had his thumb up his butt there were guys like Newell, Blinn, Bezier, Warnock, and Evans. Back in the ''60s and early ''70s, the University of Utah was the hotbed of computer graphics research.

It is no coincidence that Evans & Sutherland has its headquarters on the campus.



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Id say Bruce Naylor deserves more credit for "inventing" BSP''s... he''s making games now too BTW.

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quote:
Original post by MfA

Id say Bruce Naylor deserves more credit for "inventing" BSP''s... he''s making games now too BTW.


Yes, he does deserve more credit. But the original idea goes to H. Fuchs in 1980.



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You dont have to be a total genius to be like jc, experience helps and so does maths. Im 14 and ive been programming c++ since the age of 9, and i pretty much suck at all subjects apart from maths. r35p3c7 my m4th skillz!

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Hey, im 13... and still in school... and im learning C++... its pretty hard whilst trying to learn other stuff that is different but means the same thing...
I Really Want to learn C++ and am finding it difficult since i dont have 24/7 to learn it!
but i guess ill have to try my best...
(* and try to beat JC >:D *)




hehe stupid guy, learning c++ and opengl is easier then a² + b² = c² ... structure such a big project (like quake3) is the hard part of work.
everyone can read a few nehe tutorials in a week, but learn how to structure things needs years ...

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Hey, JC was just brilliant. The right type of person in the right type of place and in the right time. What he did in the past is history, and if we want to outcode him we''ll have to go back in time and see if we can invent real time BSP game engines if we didn''t know that they existed. It''s like saying that we are cleverer than Newton if we know all his rules by the time we''re 12. This is now and that was then. We can certainly try to build a better 3D engine than his next Doom3 but for now I''ll stick to playing his games, not trying to outdo them.

All hail JC! Hurrah!

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hmmm.. never heard that they wanted to make a Movie with the engine...

I never said JohnC wasn''t a good charakter... It''s just that he doesn''t seem to enjoy his work that much... maybe it''s just the way hardcore coders are, I dunno... but what I''ll try to keep, is to see, and show the fun I''m having working on a game... Just being flipped out like the guys at Lionhead. Well, Rarebyte is pretty crazy... hehehe... Anyway, all my friends at school think I''m crazy cause I''m sitting in front of my PC 10 hours a day, the other 14 hours I''m either sleeping or I''m at school, hmmm.. what''s the diffrence? ;p...

ok, that''s it,
cya,
Phil

Visit Rarebyte!
and no!, there are NO kangaroos in Austria (I got this questions a few times over in the states

RAW!

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There is a movie in the works. John''s wife (I am still wondering when this happened?) is using the engine to create an animated movie. Check it out at http://www.fountainheadent.com/sidrial/

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Naylor's name was on the 80's paper too, along with some other guy. He was in from the start, although in what exact capacity I dont know.

(taking a quick look the FAQ mentions him being a graduate student at the time, so its safe to say he did the real work )

Edited by - MfA on March 18, 2001 9:18:51 PM

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