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Kuno

Easy problem that has stumped me for a very long time.

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This is probably a very easy and basic thing to do, but I no clue how to code it. I''ve had many ideas but they never seem to work like I want them to do. What I''m babbling about is a 3d Wireframe maze. I''ve tried for a very long time to create one of my own with nothing but failure after failure. I''ve studied SSI''s Unlimited Adventure for many months. I''ve also studied Eye of beholder and every other 3D maze game I could find... I''ve scoured the internet and posted this problem on many message boards, usually with no responses. Mostly because either people don''t know or they think that its so simple that I must be stupid or something... I can''t believe that this technology was what led use to the FPS genre that there is no info on it on the net. So I bring my problem to you all. If you want a good laugh, this has stumped me since the mid-late 80''s. This has been a thorn in my side for a very long time... please help me pry this thorn once and for all. Thank You Kuno

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Eye of the Beholder really didn''t use 3d rendering technology. Rather, it used map data, and pre-rendered walls for each of several different views and distances. With today''s hardware and 3d graphics libraries, this would be trivial to implement.

What I think you should focus on, to get you up to speed, is how to create a simple map / maze dataset, and a rendering routine which will render the environment from any given position. Once you have mastered that, you can go on to learn about acceleration strategies, more sophisticated data organization, and so on.

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Ok that sounds great but where to I start. What information do I need to get to accomplish this goal. There was a book called Gardens of Imagination that dealt with the problem I''m facing. Asleast I think thats the books name. If anyone knows where I can get my hands on this book (its out of print) I would greatly appreciate it. I did some checking at half price books and ebay. I can find info on the book just not where I can get a copy of it.

Now I''d like to take a step back. When you said that EOB didn''t use 3D tech, but used prerender walls and mapdata do you mean something like this:

I''m standing in a hallway there are walls to the left and right of me where I''m standing and 2 spaces ahead. At the third space is a corner to the right. Would the mapdata look like this, 1 = walls to left and right, 2 for corner to right... would this be correct.

if this is true then I''m going to kick myself as I once thought about doing it like that. So if EOB did there maze like that then how were the SSI Goldbox games done? Same way or did theu use true 3D technology?

Kuno

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Not sure if this is exactly what you''re after but, look around Gamedev''s programming reference section for "raycasting". It''s a simple* method for producing basic FPS environments like in Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.

*I say simple because it''s --apparently-- simple. I''ve not actually tried it myself.

Good luck.

Eight

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Gardens of Imagination was indeed Raycasting, which is completely different from 3d wireframe polygons.

Raycasting involves having a block based map and projecting a line from the viewer for every vertical line on the screen. You keep extending the line until it hits a map block, and then use the distance from this point to the viewer to work out the height of the vertical line to draw on the screen. If you want to see what Raycasting looks like, I have a DirectDraw Raycasting demo on my webpage at-

http://www.sbdev.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Again though, it doesn''t sound like you mean Raycasting from your description. As bishop_pass said, games like EOB and Dungeon Master aren''t 3d in any way, they just scan a certain section of a block based map and blit large pre-drawn bitmaps onto the screen in the right order depending on what is in the map. Ultima 1 used wireframe polygons. Wireframe polygons are just a normal 3d engine without filling in the triangles.

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quote:
Original post by Kuno

need to get to accomplish this goal. There was a book called Gardens of Imagination that dealt with the problem I''m facing.
Kuno


I have the book in front of me right now The book starts
with a wireframe maze, moves onto bitmap version and finally
the ray casted (Wolf3D type).

I assume you are talking about the no rotatable static wireframe
maze described in the book?

Sadly I cannot seem to find the CD ROM that came with this
book and the code is quite large and I dont have time to
type it in plus fully explaining it would take too long.

Have a look here there is a program called 3dmaze.c which
seems to do what you want.

http://www.frenzy.com/~jaebear/code/c/



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Wow! Thanks guys! You''ve helped me alot!! LIke I said before I''ve been stumped for a long time. Its kinda interesting to see how different companies do 3D mazes... I''m very surprised to hear that EOB isn''t a real 3D Wireframe Maze... Perhaps I should of said something like Wizardry... I''m pretty sure those were done using Wireframe Mazes... As for the Raycasting, this isn''t what I was looking for... thats more a free roaming engine like Wolf3D and Doom... I''m going for the more ancient step-by-step dungeon crawler... You know the really sad part is that a kid in my programming class back in High School did a 3d wireframe maze dungeon crawler and I NEVER thought to ask him for a copy of it.. I still kick myself for that... Again thank you all very much!!!


-Kuno

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