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Sober

Which Programming Language To Use?

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In the end, I plan to develop a 2D/3D MMORPG, with an isometric perspective. I've played around with some code, namely C++. But, before devoting all of my time into learning it, I thought it'd be a good idea to see if it's even the right choice. I'd figure C++ with DirectX would be the most powerful, but from what I've seen it's also the most difficult to learn. So, is there an easier language that will get me good results? Or, better yet, can you point me in the direction of any good books for C++ and DirectX 9? Any help will be appreciated.

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I would recommend C# with XNA. It is very user friendly and you can get up and started very quick with the XNA framework. This is what I am currently using to make my 2D sidescroller.

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Unfortunately, there are currently no books available that I'm aware of.
If there were I would buy them myself.
XNA is a Microsoft tool and there are tons of tutorials and lots of documentation on MSDN or other MS related sites.
C++ with some API like OpenGL or DirectX truly would have the fastest speed, if you already know the language.
If you don't, it could take months and months of good programming practice to even get started making something in that capacity.
XNA and C#, or simply using managed code, is the fastest way to get started and do something realistic and if you do use XNA and C# you have the opportunity to port it to the Xbox 360 console with minumal effort.
A nice plus, but don't expect the greatest graphics around; you won't be making Gears of War with managed C#.
It's considerably slower than using C++, but far faster development which means it's actually possible to finish by yourself.

You could even use VB.net to do it, but at that point C# would be just as easy to master and would give you a little more speed.
I reccomend looking into Torque or Torque game builder.
http://www.garagegames.com

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When you compare the long learning curve of C++ to the end result. Is it worth it? Because I have time. And I'd rather have the most power possible, so I only have to worry about what I'm capable of, not what my code is capable of.

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Original post by Sober
When you compare the long learning curve of C++ to the end result. Is it worth it? Because I have time. And I'd rather have the most power possible, so I only have to worry about what I'm capable of, not what my code is capable of.

You can learn more than one language, you know. In fact, if you're going to be a truly productive programmer, you'll need to.

I learned my first language in 1993. I'm returning to one I used for three months in 2000 because my new job requires it. I'm interested in learning a few more in the next 18 months (which should bring my total up somewhere around 15 - yes, 15 programming languages).

Pick a language, stick with it and learn. You'll eventually get past the language and see that it's about learning programming, and once you do you'll find it easier to learn new languages. Happy hacking.

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Original post by Sober
When you compare the long learning curve of C++ to the end result. Is it worth it? Because I have time. And I'd rather have the most power possible, so I only have to worry about what I'm capable of, not what my code is capable of.


yes, If you have the time and willing to stick with it then yes it would be worth giving C++ a shot. Let me just say this, you will probably not get into graphics of any sort for most likely months. If you are willing to spend the time with C++ then I suggest getting C++ Game Programming by Micheal Dawson. It is a great book that teaches you the fundamentals of game programming.

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Original post by Sober
When you compare the long learning curve of C++ to the end result. Is it worth it? Because I have time. And I'd rather have the most power possible, so I only have to worry about what I'm capable of, not what my code is capable of.


I'd recommend learning to program, and then using the knowledge and experience you've gained to come to develop an opinion of your own at that time. Actually, though, that opinion should be always developing and sometimes changing dramatically. But you'll never really know the value of someone else's opinion if you have no knowledge of the subject yourself.

Quite honestly, the biggest risk in my view to a new programmer is that they will get discouraged and give up. Getting "stuck" with the wrong language is hardly a risk to be worried about at this stage. In fact, it's not really a risk at all. Once you are familiar with one language, you can learn many other languages pretty easily. And once you are reasonably adept at programming (the concept of programming in general can and frequently should be separated from what specific language is used), you can pick up a lot of the "stranger" languages pretty well too. So don't worry about starting with the "wrong" language. If at a future date you use your experience to judge that your primary language isn't right for the job at hand, you can learn a new one. If, however, at a future date you aren't programming at all because you got too frustrated with your first language or choice of libraries and engines, then that's obviously a far more serious problem, at least the context of trying to create games.

So ask people what they think is a good beginner's language, worry about the present for now, and only start trying to plan ahead a little further once you have some knowledge to help direct such fore-thinking. (Planning ahead is definitely a valuable skill, I don't want to discourage it. But when a person doesn't know much, planning ahead wisely is nearly impossible. I would say the proper course of action in this situation is to focus on gaining knowledge in the present.)

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I personally prefer C++, but C# from what I've seen looks fairly easier to use at times. All languages have their advantages though; C++ is going to run a tiny bit faster, but C# reduces development time, so the trade-off could be worth it for some.
also, for tutorials, try here:
Riemer's Tutorials
most sites I've seen use their own proprietary framework, but Riemers shows you purely DirectX 9 code.
Toymaker is pretty useful for C++ DirectX programming IMO

hope that helps,
-Wynter Woods(aka Zerotri)

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Its good to see C# getting some love :)

I think C# is very easy to learn, especially if you already have programming experience. I didn't learn C# until after I had learned Java, and I didn't fully understand OOP until I learned C#.

To be honest, I only know those two OOP languages, so I'm not exactly an authority on the subject. But if it means anything, I did build a BreakOut clone in a few weeks without any DirectX experience. I had to stumble through it with the occasional guiding hand of a friend, but C# did make it easy.

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