Thanks for all of your ideas, i will try to include as much of this as i can, on the HUD, i think i will keep it minimal, just health and ammo. and i thought about the blleding limping thing, i will include that. would be scary if you could see a trail of your own blood following you. (Shudders)
Darkness i am still a bit iffy about, no question that it will be used. but i think some of the levels will be more about discovering what happened to the mutants, also safe points will be used. however not perminent ones.
Thanks again.
FLARE_Project
How far can scary games go?
I worked with a project as the storyline designer and assistant project manager for a game where a man is sent to investigate a house where a man and his family once lived, but odd/strange events keep happening. The longer an owner of the house stays, the more clear the visions are, and the more often.
The idea was taken from a portion of Vampires: The Masquerade "Bloodlines". A haunted hotel that was owned by a father who brutally murdered his family.
We didn't go into the "jump out and scare you" mindset, but instead I created a different idea to make everything clear as day and easily seen. The house ended up being a place where serial killers were taken to be executed, as the death penalty wasn't allowed in that area. The visions were those of people they killed, and how, because their spirits had not left the house. One of the greatest scenes is where you hear a person walking upstairs, and if you choose to follow him, you see down a hallway where the light is on in a room and a kid is humming a song, drawing on some paper. As you get closer to the room, a portly man wearing an executioners mask walks to the door and slowly shuts it, glaring at you while holding an axe in one hand. You hear the kidd humming as the door shuts, and after a minute you hear the kid screaming and running around. You could easily tell what was going on in the room...kid was being chased. At one point, the axe even goes through the door when he swings it at the kid. Finally, after about a minute or so, it gets quiet. You open the door, and the room is empty.
The idea is that, if you get something sick and twisted, and don't hide it, that can scare the hell out of you. Make it so the player is helpless to do anything about it, unless it affects them directly, and make it so they HAVE to encounter it. In the game, we created 12 different serial killers, all with their own agenda and method (the executioner, who watched his mother get killed by execution in the early 1900s; the WWI solider that was a torturer that couldn't get enough of watching a human suffer; the Mirror, who had multiple personalities, one that was violent and the other that was depressed). There were so many times where you could just see what was about to happen and alot of the testers would be looking at me and the head designer saying "You can't do this...oh my god..." right as they could see something coming. If the people playing can see something coming, and you don't TRY to make it look like a surprise, it adds alot to the shock and scare value.
I'm going to be posting my resume and advert on the help section to offer consulting and writing for game designers. If you need some help with your game, let me know.
Ben
Willow/Phantom Design
The idea was taken from a portion of Vampires: The Masquerade "Bloodlines". A haunted hotel that was owned by a father who brutally murdered his family.
We didn't go into the "jump out and scare you" mindset, but instead I created a different idea to make everything clear as day and easily seen. The house ended up being a place where serial killers were taken to be executed, as the death penalty wasn't allowed in that area. The visions were those of people they killed, and how, because their spirits had not left the house. One of the greatest scenes is where you hear a person walking upstairs, and if you choose to follow him, you see down a hallway where the light is on in a room and a kid is humming a song, drawing on some paper. As you get closer to the room, a portly man wearing an executioners mask walks to the door and slowly shuts it, glaring at you while holding an axe in one hand. You hear the kidd humming as the door shuts, and after a minute you hear the kid screaming and running around. You could easily tell what was going on in the room...kid was being chased. At one point, the axe even goes through the door when he swings it at the kid. Finally, after about a minute or so, it gets quiet. You open the door, and the room is empty.
The idea is that, if you get something sick and twisted, and don't hide it, that can scare the hell out of you. Make it so the player is helpless to do anything about it, unless it affects them directly, and make it so they HAVE to encounter it. In the game, we created 12 different serial killers, all with their own agenda and method (the executioner, who watched his mother get killed by execution in the early 1900s; the WWI solider that was a torturer that couldn't get enough of watching a human suffer; the Mirror, who had multiple personalities, one that was violent and the other that was depressed). There were so many times where you could just see what was about to happen and alot of the testers would be looking at me and the head designer saying "You can't do this...oh my god..." right as they could see something coming. If the people playing can see something coming, and you don't TRY to make it look like a surprise, it adds alot to the shock and scare value.
I'm going to be posting my resume and advert on the help section to offer consulting and writing for game designers. If you need some help with your game, let me know.
Ben
Willow/Phantom Design
Following through on the previously mentioned 'audio' factor a bit... your players are smart people. They will be able to tell when audio elements are reused. It forms a pattern, and that's what is the greatest killer of horror: predictability. In order to truly scare the player/reader/watcher, you have to maintain that level of unknown and unpredictability. Too many horror instances follow a pattern. For example:
1) The music swells. The camera zooms in close to the protagonist's face. The eyes widen. Then the camera swings around to show the "horror".
2) Silence. Protagonist peers around a corner. Cue sharp music notes or screeching sounds and evil unknown creature in darkness.
3) Blackness. Heartbeat sounds. Heavy, gasped breathing. Someone finds a lightswitch or flashlight or lighter, and BOO!!
You've seen these in a movie before, and do they really scare anymore? Viewer expectations have grown used to such formulamatic elements, and they don't work anymore. Instead, scares have to be a bit more creative. Find a movie or game that scares/scared you and really analyze what it was that scared you. Was it the darkness or lighting? Was it the sudden sound or dreary silence? Was it the flicker of shadows? Once you have an idea of what it was that specifically gave you chills, you can recreate it.
1) The music swells. The camera zooms in close to the protagonist's face. The eyes widen. Then the camera swings around to show the "horror".
2) Silence. Protagonist peers around a corner. Cue sharp music notes or screeching sounds and evil unknown creature in darkness.
3) Blackness. Heartbeat sounds. Heavy, gasped breathing. Someone finds a lightswitch or flashlight or lighter, and BOO!!
You've seen these in a movie before, and do they really scare anymore? Viewer expectations have grown used to such formulamatic elements, and they don't work anymore. Instead, scares have to be a bit more creative. Find a movie or game that scares/scared you and really analyze what it was that scared you. Was it the darkness or lighting? Was it the sudden sound or dreary silence? Was it the flicker of shadows? Once you have an idea of what it was that specifically gave you chills, you can recreate it.
It cant just be a quick jump out though...you need to follow up. If something flickers in the shadows, have it keep doing so as you're walking. Make it dead silent except for when the flicker happens. Repitition can work in your favor for things like this.
Take, for instance, the House of the Dead series...you get freaked out and they STILL keep coming at you. Cheap scares feel hollow...a sudden "boo!" event cannot compare to the continued scare. Think of things like Jurrasic Park, when the T-Rex chases down the vehicle. That right there is a continued scare, and that gets your heart racing.
However, on the other side of it, things like Fear, where you would go through a door and hear the "noise", or turn the corner and see the girl there, it was sudden and scared you to see her there, but it always followed through...her running at you for a few seconds, staring at you...launching you out a window...so on.
Take, for instance, the House of the Dead series...you get freaked out and they STILL keep coming at you. Cheap scares feel hollow...a sudden "boo!" event cannot compare to the continued scare. Think of things like Jurrasic Park, when the T-Rex chases down the vehicle. That right there is a continued scare, and that gets your heart racing.
However, on the other side of it, things like Fear, where you would go through a door and hear the "noise", or turn the corner and see the girl there, it was sudden and scared you to see her there, but it always followed through...her running at you for a few seconds, staring at you...launching you out a window...so on.
To be honest, I was to tired to read all of the post, but you must keep in mind that fear is an individual feeling. For me, the event of a suddenly appearance of a mutant-zombie-squirrel triggers the feeling of surprise more than fear. Well, perhaps the squirrel part isn't that frightening in the first place ;)
Fear can also be psychological; The Clown from Stephen King's IT is a perfect example of psychological fear. Fear can also come in the form of stress; like the elements in the Alien movies and the Alien versus Predator game where the motion detector detects hundreds of movements outside a room or just above your head, inside the ceiling.
Another stage of fear is the (sub)conscious fear; like the fear of spiders, tight places or even large groups of people. Perhaps taking it for granted that all people fears the dark (Hail, Maiden) is a step towards a failed horror game? I do not know that for sure but you might want to keep that in mind
Edit:
I just noticed that the second (psychological fear) and the third stage ( (sub)conscious fear ) is virtually the same, but still they differ
Fear can also be psychological; The Clown from Stephen King's IT is a perfect example of psychological fear. Fear can also come in the form of stress; like the elements in the Alien movies and the Alien versus Predator game where the motion detector detects hundreds of movements outside a room or just above your head, inside the ceiling.
Another stage of fear is the (sub)conscious fear; like the fear of spiders, tight places or even large groups of people. Perhaps taking it for granted that all people fears the dark (Hail, Maiden) is a step towards a failed horror game? I do not know that for sure but you might want to keep that in mind
Edit:
I just noticed that the second (psychological fear) and the third stage ( (sub)conscious fear ) is virtually the same, but still they differ
Quote:Im working on an idea at the moment, its that all you can see is what your torch is lighting up. this would make for good gameplay, as you would get scared S***less when a mutant jumps out of no where, or a creature that hisses from the bright light of your torch.
This was doom3, it sucked. This does not create fear, it creates surprise. And even that is quickly lost. I jumped at the first 10 monsters in doom who came out of nowhere, then I got numb/used to them, until it was simply taxing on my patience. True scariness is not a physical element, if you ask me.
So if you really want to make a horror game, put the actual scary stuff deeper in the game. In the plot if you can. Sometimes the idea behind something can make it one thousand times more frightening.
I also saw some mention of gui's. Personally, I see a gui as a standard of games. Therefore the player can hold onto this when the rest of the game goes haywire. For a game intent on being scary, the absence of this anchor could help to further this mood. Even if you leave the gui in, I would suggest removing the health bar. Instead have health indicated by a red hue on the screen or a pounding heart. These more primitive informers reach deeper into the human psyche than a very abstract 0-100 health bar.
Use darkness and blood, and all the standards of horror sparingly and intelligently. A game where every level is bathed is blood numbs, not scares the player. A game shrouded in darkness *cough*doom 3*cough* taxes, not frightens, them. Make the plot be whats scary, and these game elements simply the tools used to convey the fear to the player. Also, don't forget about pacing, too much "scary" in one consecutive run will numb the player no matter how high quality it is. This is the warm conversation between the survivors before the next onslaught of zombies that you've seen in movies a hundred times. With careful enough execution, these elements can combine to create a truly horrifying experience.
When in animation school, some of my collegues were working on a Quake 2 mod (I'm old) and for fun they added a background sound of crying babies to the second to last room of their demo. So you'd come all the way down these catacombs, fight sewer lizards and stuff and you'd get in a place were you can hear dozens of babies crying. Then they had all their friends test their demo.
I can tell you that the version with the babies crying made people freak out WAY more than the version without. And the only difference was the soundtrack.
I can tell you that the version with the babies crying made people freak out WAY more than the version without. And the only difference was the soundtrack.
People get scared by seeing twisted things. Even though its not a game, look at the Saw series.
A good horror game is one that relies on both psychological horror, and surprises.
As for lighting, I can say right now that ive played more games where the lighting HAS scared me, then games where the lighting hasnt. Condemned: Criminal Origins, for example, does this so perfectly.
Condemned had a certain design concept I liked. The maniacs would hide from you in various places. You would actually see the maniac running away, and see exactly what corner he is hiding behind. Does this make it less scary / less nerve wrecking, for me it only makes it more so.
This may be some pseudo philosophical BS, but humans are humans. When you think of a human, you think of someone much like yourself. Which means your antagonist needs to be as sick and twisted as you can possibly make him. Example: We usually view doves as these angel-like birds (or at least most people I know). Which means in your game, the killer might kill them, or maybe they are some spawn of Satan (Dont worry about that.)
As for surprises, I dont see whats wrong with them. Of course, things that arent surprises can be just as scary as surprises. Example, your turning a corner into a long hallway, all of the sudden the music rushes as someone comes rushing at you! Now, same scenario, this time though you turn the corner, and the music tones it down to a heart-beat like sound, you look ahead, and the demented killer is slowly walking toward you, confident in his ability to kill. Both are pretty scary scenarios, in my opinion.
Lets take a very scary movie. The Shining. It had its pop-out moments, when he swings the axe at the door and he pops his head in, and says his famous line. Then we have the psychological parts, the boy being chased through the maze, Jack following closly behind, but this time, Jack is walking. Walking, with his head up high, thats pretty creepy. Another example of this are the two twins, they were pretty creepy as well.
I think a combination of these 'scare-tactics' forms something good.
Lets say your right, every time the player opens the door, something pops out. The window, nothing pops out. Whenever you get close to the door, your going to be expecting something. The music starts up. . .You walk closer to the door, open it, and nothing! You turn around and close the door, turn around, and blam! There another monster/person/zombie/etc. is! Yikes! You start walking to the window, and something breaks the window, yikes yet again!
Music is an important part of anything. Lets say your walking, if the music starts slowly pulsing like a heart, its likely your heart will start beating faster because your expecting something, thus making you more scared.
*end of long, unorganized 2 cents.
A good horror game is one that relies on both psychological horror, and surprises.
As for lighting, I can say right now that ive played more games where the lighting HAS scared me, then games where the lighting hasnt. Condemned: Criminal Origins, for example, does this so perfectly.
Condemned had a certain design concept I liked. The maniacs would hide from you in various places. You would actually see the maniac running away, and see exactly what corner he is hiding behind. Does this make it less scary / less nerve wrecking, for me it only makes it more so.
This may be some pseudo philosophical BS, but humans are humans. When you think of a human, you think of someone much like yourself. Which means your antagonist needs to be as sick and twisted as you can possibly make him. Example: We usually view doves as these angel-like birds (or at least most people I know). Which means in your game, the killer might kill them, or maybe they are some spawn of Satan (Dont worry about that.)
As for surprises, I dont see whats wrong with them. Of course, things that arent surprises can be just as scary as surprises. Example, your turning a corner into a long hallway, all of the sudden the music rushes as someone comes rushing at you! Now, same scenario, this time though you turn the corner, and the music tones it down to a heart-beat like sound, you look ahead, and the demented killer is slowly walking toward you, confident in his ability to kill. Both are pretty scary scenarios, in my opinion.
Lets take a very scary movie. The Shining. It had its pop-out moments, when he swings the axe at the door and he pops his head in, and says his famous line. Then we have the psychological parts, the boy being chased through the maze, Jack following closly behind, but this time, Jack is walking. Walking, with his head up high, thats pretty creepy. Another example of this are the two twins, they were pretty creepy as well.
I think a combination of these 'scare-tactics' forms something good.
Lets say your right, every time the player opens the door, something pops out. The window, nothing pops out. Whenever you get close to the door, your going to be expecting something. The music starts up. . .You walk closer to the door, open it, and nothing! You turn around and close the door, turn around, and blam! There another monster/person/zombie/etc. is! Yikes! You start walking to the window, and something breaks the window, yikes yet again!
Music is an important part of anything. Lets say your walking, if the music starts slowly pulsing like a heart, its likely your heart will start beating faster because your expecting something, thus making you more scared.
*end of long, unorganized 2 cents.
Quote:Original post by Flare_Project
Im developing a game at the moment (FLARE - Age of Destruction) you may have seen it in the Help Wanted forum. Anyway its a horror game, set in the near future, but its not as unique as i had hoped, the story is new, its set in the UK, not a popular setting for games today. It has those 4 armed mutants and zombies that creap up on you from all angles, it even has an evil faction trying to take over the planet, but what else do people look for in horror games?
Im working on an idea at the moment, its that all you can see is what your torch is lighting up. this would make for good gameplay, as you would get scared S***less when a mutant jumps out of no where, or a creature that hisses from the bright light of your torch.
The game is set mostly outside, and so there are levels in the day, which can ruin it slightly but it makes sense.
Looking for any comments, what do YOU want in a horror game? providing its unique.
Thanks
FLARE_Project
The effect in Return to Castle Wolfenstein where there was a distinctive sound for one of the tough nasties that you would hear but not be sure where it was coming from (Far Cry had something simillar) but that it was likely to be around a corner imminently (and they often would stop so you were not sure where). Its not 'unique' but had that suspense and desire for possible running away very 'feet do your stuff' fast (these nasties would kill you pretty fast if you were in reach and were hard to kill).
As for effects, its hard to beat the 'river of blood'.....
A nasty like a poltergeist that knocked your weapon from your hand at inopportune moments might be rather startling.
The shadows and scampering, unseen, otherworldly things worked twice in video games that I can think of. They're both change-ups, based on giving a clear impression, then switching the reality to something else.
F.E.A.R.'s demo did okay with the spooky little girl thing, but as you got into the full length game, it became clear that she wasn't a threat, and since the bad guys never sprang out of the darkness, you actually felt safer hanging out with the phantom girl than you did walking around in the light. At the end, though, the rules change, and you freak out on a regular basis as the game becomes retardedly difficult.
In Resident Evil 4, there's a scene where you're introduced to these horrible bug monsters (Novistadores, I believe). They're scary for solid, video game reasons. They're tough to spot (invisible, even), they do decent damage at close quarters, and they waste a lot of ammo if you get freaked out and start shooting wildly, which you do the first few times you see them. They attack in ankle-deep water, so the real clue to their presence is the rapid splashing as they approach.
So you get into this narrow, long dead-end tunnel, with a freaking treasure chest at one end. You played Quake 3, you know what to expect, so you reload your shotgun and slosh over to the chest. It's loot, not ammor or anything useful, and then you here "Splash! Splash, splash, splashsplashsplashsplash..." and silence. You spin around about eight times during that little sound effect, then take a deep breath, walk out and get jumped by a novistador. You should really have seen it coming, but I didn't the first time.
So basically, for spooking players, it's like a game of rock, paper scissors. If every dark corner has a zombie in it and every hallway you "clear" has monsters spawn in it (I'm looking at you, Quake 3) then people will just assume that the darkness is monsters and demons are right behind them. That's not scary, it's just clumsy level design. But if one in ten zombies get back up and come after you again, that's something that'll distract you every time.
Lull us into a false sense of complacency, like F.E.A.R. does with the ghost of Alma, or make a self-deprecating mockery of the known formula, like RE4 did with the novistadores. Don't let it get stale and predictable, unless you're using that predictability to set us up for a curve ball.
F.E.A.R.'s demo did okay with the spooky little girl thing, but as you got into the full length game, it became clear that she wasn't a threat, and since the bad guys never sprang out of the darkness, you actually felt safer hanging out with the phantom girl than you did walking around in the light. At the end, though, the rules change, and you freak out on a regular basis as the game becomes retardedly difficult.
In Resident Evil 4, there's a scene where you're introduced to these horrible bug monsters (Novistadores, I believe). They're scary for solid, video game reasons. They're tough to spot (invisible, even), they do decent damage at close quarters, and they waste a lot of ammo if you get freaked out and start shooting wildly, which you do the first few times you see them. They attack in ankle-deep water, so the real clue to their presence is the rapid splashing as they approach.
So you get into this narrow, long dead-end tunnel, with a freaking treasure chest at one end. You played Quake 3, you know what to expect, so you reload your shotgun and slosh over to the chest. It's loot, not ammor or anything useful, and then you here "Splash! Splash, splash, splashsplashsplashsplash..." and silence. You spin around about eight times during that little sound effect, then take a deep breath, walk out and get jumped by a novistador. You should really have seen it coming, but I didn't the first time.
So basically, for spooking players, it's like a game of rock, paper scissors. If every dark corner has a zombie in it and every hallway you "clear" has monsters spawn in it (I'm looking at you, Quake 3) then people will just assume that the darkness is monsters and demons are right behind them. That's not scary, it's just clumsy level design. But if one in ten zombies get back up and come after you again, that's something that'll distract you every time.
Lull us into a false sense of complacency, like F.E.A.R. does with the ghost of Alma, or make a self-deprecating mockery of the known formula, like RE4 did with the novistadores. Don't let it get stale and predictable, unless you're using that predictability to set us up for a curve ball.
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