# Looking for 2D Game Programmer

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GameDev.net, My name is Kirk Sigmon and I am a project manager of an up-and-coming 2D Massively Multiplayer Onlne Game. With about 20 people in our staff already, this is an absolutely huge project, and we're constantly looking for green or existing talent to take on the team. Right now, my team is looking for a programmer for the game itself. While we have many people offering to take the job, the job position is open to anyone who can impress my critique team and I. This job would involve the actual programming of the entire engine, which would include the following features: * An action-RPG battle engine * A MMORPG backbone allowing hundreds of players to play on one game server * Support for open source formats such as OGG Vorbis, Speex, PNG, and the like * Support for Windows XP and greater and Mac OSX (eg: No DirectX) * A level engine, including a level editor * An internal scripting engine for level developers All of this is to be done in a format that is both low footprint and expandable. My team would prefer "basic" coding languages (C++, C, et al) rather than any kind of language that requires external downloads (such as JAVA). This project will be incredibly detailed, but because we have laid things out for you (as well as consulted with other programmers), I can assure you that everything is not only simple work, but also very straightforward and structured work. More details can be given in a documentation file we have that outlines virtually every single detail and feature the game should contain. This project will be paid in a unique way. Instead of a lump-sum payment before or after the project, you will be contractually obligated to a percentage of future profits capped at a reasonable level. For example, you could get 3% of all net profits capped at $40,000 or more for your work- a large amount of money for even the most advanced coder. If you are interested, you can contact me on here or at Kirk@Gametrash.com. All potential clients will be asked to sign a Non-disclosure agreement that will ensure you do not share any information with our competitors. As well, you can contact me with any kinds of questions or concerns you may have, or just give me an opinion of what you think in general. Thanks, Kirk Sigmon #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Quote:  Original post by HeliosLoireGameDev.net,My name is Kirk Sigmon and I am a project manager of an up-and-coming 2D Massively Multiplayer Onlne Game. With about 20 people in our staff already, this is an absolutely huge project, and we're constantly looking for green or existing talent to take on the team.Right now, my team is looking for a programmer for the game itself. While we have many people offering to take the job, the job position is open to anyone who can impress my critique team and I. This job would involve the actual programming of the entire engine, which would include the following features:* An action-RPG battle engine* A MMORPG backbone allowing hundreds of players to play on one game server* Support for open source formats such as OGG Vorbis, Speex, PNG, and the like* Support for Windows XP and greater and Mac OSX (eg: No DirectX)* A level engine, including a level editor* An internal scripting engine for level developersAll of this is to be done in a format that is both low footprint and expandable. My team would prefer "basic" coding languages (C++, C, et al) rather than any kind of language that requires external downloads (such as JAVA). This project will be incredibly detailed, but because we have laid things out for you (as well as consulted with other programmers), I can assure you that everything is not only simple work, but also very straightforward and structured work.More details can be given in a documentation file we have that outlines virtually every single detail and feature the game should contain.This project will be paid in a unique way. Instead of a lump-sum payment before or after the project, you will be contractually obligated to a percentage of future profits capped at a reasonable level. For example, you could get 3% of all net profits capped at$40,000 or more for your work- a large amount of money for even the most advanced coder.If you are interested, you can contact me on here or at Kirk@Gametrash.com. All potential clients will be asked to sign a Non-disclosure agreement that will ensure you do not share any information with our competitors. As well, you can contact me with any kinds of questions or concerns you may have, or just give me an opinion of what you think in general.Thanks,Kirk Sigmon
Hi Kirk,

GDNet actually has a forum specifically for indie hiring and recruitment here. Be sure to read the sticky and to use the post template; it will help you organize your information and fill in a few bits that are missing from the above post. In particular, be sure to specify what the 20 people on your staff are doing if not programming.

Just to give you a heads up, the 'percentage of profits' payment plan is generally viewed askance by those with any experience in game development. When recruiting, it's generally best to be straightforward and state that the work is volunteer (which it is in this case).

I would also recommend emphasizing the 2D nature of the game a bit more, as this has a significant bearing on the technical requirements of the engine.

I will say that the plan presented in your post seems somewhat impractical, especially considering that the project is unfunded (or so it appears). If you choose to post in Help Wanted you will most likely get some additional feedback in this area.

One last suggestion. In the Help Wanted forum archives you can find countless recruitment threads for massively multiplayer games of various types. You might give a few of these a read before posting your own thread, as it might help you avoid some of the pitfalls and missteps that can lead to a poor reception.

Oh, and kudos for targeting multiple OSs (e.g. OS X :)

Best of luck with the project.

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Ugh, this is why I hate posting on this website, too many armchair technicians- lots of opinion, absolutely no use in the practical world.

Quote:
 Original post by jykJust to give you a heads up, the 'percentage of profits' payment plan is generally viewed askance by those with any experience in game development. When recruiting, it's generally best to be straightforward and state that the work is volunteer (which it is in this case).

No. No, it's not. The percentage is a real and viable thing, and we're signing contracts as we speak. The company running this is incorporating in about the next week. This is real work. Your assumption would fly would it be me just trying to con people into work, but my ass is already on enough contracts for this deal to know it's quite real.

Quote:
 Original post by jykI would also recommend emphasizing the 2D nature of the game a bit more, as that has a significant bearing on the technical requirements of the engine.

I thought "2D MMORPG Game" was sufficient. Guess I need to use really big letters.

Quote:
 Original post by jykI will say that the plan presented in your post seems somewhat impractical, especially considering that the project is unfunded (or so it appears). If you choose to post in Help Wanted you will most likely get some additional feedback in this area.

Wrong again. We have funding. We're just spending it on practical things. The plan we have is actually very practical, however, much like above, you're making dumbass assumptions based on your own sense of self-superiority. Do you want me to get my lawyer to contact you or something to prove this is real, or should I do three backflips, click my heels together, and magic you up some sort of prospectus on the entire project?

I usually don't mind posts like this, but let me just get this out of the way: unless you actually are willing to work, then cram it. I don't care what you think about the project, as unless you're going to be working for me, your opinion doesn't matter. Unless you're a C-level representative from a major game development company, I will ignore every post you make from hereon out, kay?

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Quote:
 Original post by HeliosLoire...kay?
Roger ;-)

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Who the fuck are you HeliosLoire?

jyk, a very respected member of the community, offers you solid advice on how to improve your post and sound more professional and you call him a worthless nobody? You're too stupid to find the Help Wanted board and you feel self-righteous enough to insult him?

You have no website.
You have no company.
You have no pay.
You have no respect within the community.

The only nobody here is you. Just another dipshit wannabe game designer with no actual talent who contributes nothing to the team. Signing contracts... yeah right. No product to display and a publisher is signed on to the deal. Believable.

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 Original post by GroZZleRYou have no website.You have no company.You have no pay.You have no respect within the community.The only nobody here is you. Just another dipshit wannabe game designer with no actual talent who contributes nothing to the team. Singing contracts... yeah right. No product to display and a publisher is signed on to the deal. Believable.

1. Wrong (Did I ever say I didn't?).
2. Wrong (Registered through the State of Nevada as an incorporation, but I won't say specifically which one <3).
3. Wrong (Just because I hire people based on future profits doesn't mean I'm not sitting on a lot of seed money).
4. Inconsequential (What company do YOU work for?).

You children must grow up before you begin critiquing other people. I have all three of those- I'm just not mentioning them outright.

The sad thing about the entire situation here is that both of you are making kneejerk assumptions you can't back up. I'm operating in a way that may be entirely foreign to you, but nonetheless is a viable business move. I don't explicitly go "I work for BLANK INCORPORATED" because I'm not looking for comments on the company (same for the website). Plus I'm pulling some viral marketing stuff I don't feel like revealing yet. I don't go "I will give you \$20k ahead of time" because I don't feel like fucking over my seed money and I've rather been using it to negotiate on getting a network for the system.

As for the respect, your opinion is only based on your very limited knowledge of the market. I have always operated without mentioning whom I'm running under, and this is no difference.

Let me translate this for you: you don't matter either. I don't care how you feel about my operations, nor do I care how well you think things will work. I've gotten plenty of flak from various sources, and your weak opinion isn't going to phase me one bit.

Let me just sum up my opinion on these comments: I'm the only one here willing to have the balls to run with something rather than critique it without actually doing anything in the realm. If you gentlemen would like to make a MMO of your own and compete, then please do so. However, unless you are willing to suck it up and try it on your own (or have previous experience in doing so), your opinion is useless. Many famous business moves have been made when armchair businessmen like yourself critiqued them- therefore, you must understand, I don't give a flying shit what you say.

Let me spell it out in nice little big letters for you:
UNLESS YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL FOR A CORPORATION THAT HAS PRODUCED GAMES THAT HAVE SOLD WELL, I WILL NOT LISTEN TO YOU WHATSOEVER.

You must understand, you're just a forum troll, not a businessman or market analyst. Now, would you please leave this thread be so I can kindly find people willing to work and make something of themselves?

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Anybody who would work for you after that sort of tirade must be full of self-loathing and entirely masochistic. Insulting two well respected members of this community does not speak well of your managerial skills, especially when their critiques are valid. You obviously spent very little time getting to know this community, given that you didn't even have the common decency to post this in the correct forum. Why would anybody volunteer to work for you after that display of awful managerial ability?

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Quote:
 Let me spell it out in nice little big letters for you:UNLESS YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL FOR A CORPORATION THAT HAS PRODUCED GAMES THAT HAVE SOLD WELL, I WILL NOT LISTEN TO YOU WHATSOEVER.

Well, not to jump into the middle of this, but if that is your attitude then you have come to the wrong site, my friend. The people here are mainly indie developers, and a comment like that will most certainly turn away a lot of them, myself included (had I been considering this offer). Most people here like to have a say in what they do, because they are hobbyists, not slaves in an office, and whether that comment is directed only at the critics who've posted or at everyone, it certainly reveals some undesirable tendencies...Just something to think about.

EDIT: Yeah, what Visage said...

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You might well have all these things you claim, but we don't know that if you don't make it clear, which your original post did not.

You're being too secretive, what you've essentially said is "Mystery Game Studio is seeking talent for Slightly Less Mysterious MMORPG. Possibility of capped salary."

Its certainly not the *worst* MMORPG thread I've seen, at least you've layed out some general technology requirements that seem reasonable, rather than "We need these 27 rediculously complex features."

So build on that, and provide some solid facts. Your original post didn't need to include a specific company name, but it certainly could have said "Incorporated start-up studio seeking talent" or some-such, it would have been much better recieved. Remember, you're trying to attract the most talented people you can here, so make the package as attractive as possible. No one's going to jump at the chance simply because you are so graciously bestowing us the opportunity.

Basically, *you* are the outsider here, so you have to approach this place with some respect, and particularly for those who have been here for ages. So far, you've only displayed hostility and a disregard for accepted practices (using the standard Help Wanted template in the Help Wanted forum, for instance) the latter of which, admitedly, is probably only due to the fact that you're new here - its forgivable as long as you present the type of personality worthy of forgiveness.

It's a bit like you've come into our house looking for help, made some grandious claim, and then started attacking our friends when they try to coax some facts out of you to back it up. You wouldn't like someone to do the same in your house would you? You certainly wouldn't want to work for that person.

Just be a little more humble, ok?

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Like I said, I'm not really going to care about any of these comments. I won't get into back-and-forth, especially when none of you are worth my time.

But, yeah, let me just quickly make my point clear: all of you who find reputation on this site important are retards. Reputation on this site does not equate to cash, nor does it equate to good game making. Just because you can get your dick proverbially sucked online for being a major poster does not make you a valuable member of any programming team.

The reason I'm jumping on all of your asses is because I've opened another thread on here a while back and got the same kind of shit. Look, geniuses: you are useless unless you are part of the project. Your opinions do not matter, nor does your post count. As the old line goes, "Your post count does not equal your penis", and your e-reputation will not make a game better. People do not buy games based on how popular you are on gamedev.net, they buy it on how good of a game you do.

With that being said, I regret ever wasting my time with any of you. I will thus spend the time that I would normally spend facilitating questions on here and move to a place that features actual talent and skill, as well as people with humility of their own. Rather, instead of dealing with you arrogant fucks, I will go actually make money- continue posting on here and wasting your time as the rest of us work toward making something of these talents you so fervently promote.

PS: I posted in this forum for a reason <3

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Kirk,

I initially clicked on this post because I was interested in your project details. I'm a member of a professional indie development team and I'm also loyal to this community: Every effort you put in here, comes back at you being worth a hundred times more. Most people here are really talented and also helpful. Of course, you will also sometimes read rather opinionated comments as in every large community. I think, however, that this business does mainly live from opinions - gamers are like the most opinionated target group I've ever seen. You should, however, not consider their statements as being insulting (what they most definitely are not meant to be) but rather learn from them - and that's my opinion. In fact, jyk had a few good points, wrote his professional opinion and managed to not be insulting at the same time... Sorry, but after reading YOUR posts, I - being a member of this community - do feel insulted.

My best,
Florian

See ya. Or not.

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