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# Reality of a job after schooling

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I started college this fall for computer science. I'm taking c++ this semester and advanced in the summer. Then fall is vb.net and java. Anyways It seems to me that c++ is not a very useful language as I thought it was. We are never going to leave the console in this course during college. How many jobs, will actually want you to make programs using the console? I'm not saying c++ is not powerful. It just seems to me like you would have to know alot more than just how to program a "console" app. Or am I wrong there. Can you go straight out of school into a job? I really don't even understand how all these applications are made with c++. It does not have all the drag and drop "components" like vb does.Or does it? Anyways if someone could shed some light on these questions. Thanks.

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I think its up to you to learn how to get beyond simple console applications. C++ is the main language used in game development. Pick up simple graphic libraries or game engines and use C++ to build games. I guess it really depends on what type of programmer you want to be. But college and learning the basics of C++ ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

You can go from school to a job without a doubt. I'd look for internships and try to get in while your in school.

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 Original post by loachmanI started college this fall for computer science. I'm taking c++ this semester and advanced in the summer. Then fall is vb.net and java.Anyways It seems to me that c++ is not a very useful language as I thought it was.We are never going to leave the console in this course during college.How many jobs, will actually want you to make programs using the console? I'm not saying c++ is not powerful. It just seems to me like you would have to know alot more than just how to program a "console" app.Or am I wrong there. Can you go straight out of school into a job?I really don't even understand how all these applications are made with c++. It does not have all the drag and drop "components" like vb does.Or does it?Anyways if someone could shed some light on these questions.Thanks.

I am still in college dont have any degrees yet just a highschool diploma. I got a job at a travel software company as a php developer/bug fixer. You will probably start off in a similar situation making 13-15$per hour and then work your way up. After a year or two of bugs then you will be able to find a new job as a full fledged devloper making 18-20$ per hour. There is hope :-)
-durfy

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VB programming isn't REALLY programming, imo. It hides a lot of stuff from you, thats why you can blindly do a lot of stuff knowing very little about what is really going on. C++ forces you to learn more behind the scenes.

There is a big step from console projects to Win32 apps, since you have to know some Windows API to get a window running....and then know some graphics API, most likely OpenGL or Direct3D. After learning the console basics, with online tutorials you can learn the Win32 and graphics API's, but it takes a lot of time and practice.

I'd imagine it is extremely difficult to get a job in the game industry without knowing how to make a window, and at the very least some knowledge of 3D graphics, and some OpenGL or D3D.

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 Original post by loachmanHow many jobs, will actually want you to make programs using the console? I'm not saying c++ is not powerful. It just seems to me like you would have to know alot more than just how to program a "console" app.

1.5 years in embedded development I not only used only console, I used 8-12 at the same time... Not to mention it was all C/C++, including kernel, driver and application hacking.

Yes, C++ takes time to learn. It's a tool that can do anything - but even with lots of experience and knowledge, the concepts it offers will take long to master.

Will you use C++ (MVS2005, console app with stdafx.h and Debug mode) in your job? Never. You'll be required to develop, maintain or administer software and systems. If C++ is part of that, then you better know it, or know how to learn what you don't know.

But knowing how to develop a console application isn't a marketable skill - just like knowing how to display a .jsp isn't. Of course, you're more likely to be hired if you have written one single .jsp than if you had written one single console app. But that's just temporary market fluxes.

What your application is is irrelevant. Software engineering is anything but such details.

Learn the syntax, the pitfalls, the general characteristics. Knowing 5+ different languages helps a lot. Learn different types of applications and their characteristics. Console is one type. Web services, MFC, .Net, ASP, JSP, Struts, QT, the list goes on and on.

The more you know, the better. Not just because they'd get you a job, but because you'll realize how similar all of these are, and how much easier it is to transfer between them.

But it all starts with console application.

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Original post by Antheus
Quote:
 Original post by loachmanHow many jobs, will actually want you to make programs using the console? I'm not saying c++ is not powerful. It just seems to me like you would have to know alot more than just how to program a "console" app.

1.5 years in embedded development I not only used only console, I used 8-12 at the same time... Not to mention it was all C/C++, including kernel, driver and application hacking.

Yes, C++ takes time to learn. It's a tool that can do anything - but even with lots of experience and knowledge, the concepts it offers will take long to master.

Will you use C++ (MVS2005, console app with stdafx.h and Debug mode) in your job? Never. You'll be required to develop, maintain or administer software and systems. If C++ is part of that, then you better know it, or know how to learn what you don't know.

But knowing how to develop a console application isn't a marketable skill - just like knowing how to display a .jsp isn't. Of course, you're more likely to be hired if you have written one single .jsp than if you had written one single console app. But that's just temporary market fluxes.

What your application is is irrelevant. Software engineering is anything but such details.

Learn the syntax, the pitfalls, the general characteristics. Knowing 5+ different languages helps a lot. Learn different types of applications and their characteristics. Console is one type. Web services, MFC, .Net, ASP, JSP, Struts, QT, the list goes on and on.

The more you know, the better. Not just because they'd get you a job, but because you'll realize how similar all of these are, and how much easier it is to transfer between them.

But it all starts with console application.

A note about that. Once you learn how to program learning a language is just a matter of syntax. The more you know the better but its not impossible to get a job knowing just how to program rather than specific languages as did i. I didn't know php i was a beginner/intermediate c++ programmer but it didn't matter because I know how the programs work and I can fix things I see wrong with logic. Just this week I am writing my first set of classes for the company going to revise some of the procedural code for payment types and turn it into a bunch of classes :-)
-Durfy

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 Original post by loachmanI started college this fall for computer science. I'm taking c++ this semester and advanced in the summer. Then fall is vb.net and java.

And then the other 3 years will be the actually useful stuff [grin]

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 Anyways It seems to me that c++ is not a very useful language as I thought it was.We are never going to leave the console in this course during college.

Yes, most people tend to think a little too much of it. Then again, most people tend to think a lot too much of user interfaces too...

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 How many jobs, will actually want you to make programs using the console?

A good number. The presentation layer is only a piece of any system, and there's far more programming than just standalone PC apps for Joe Consumer.

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 I'm not saying c++ is not powerful. It just seems to me like you would have to know alot more than just how to program a "console" app.

That's why there are teams of programmers. And yes, you'll need to know a lot more. Personally, I've dealt with more than a half-dozen different languages in just the first few months of my current job (c, c++, perl, C#, java, lisp, bash script; add sql and regexes used by various things...). Add to that the various other non-syntax things required by the job: the industry specific terminology and practices, how to interact with people in business, QA, documentation, how to effectively use and program for 3 OSes, how to plan effectively, manage your time, work with others, read ancient code made by 3 people no longer with the company, deal with archaic compilers, unreasonable requirements...

But if it makes you feel any better about 95% of my assignments so far were console only. That distinction is perhaps the least of your worries.

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 Or am I wrong there. Can you go straight out of school into a job?

Sure people can and do. Remember, you're one semester and a little out of 8. You're seeing the super basics so that the professors can teach you useful stuff in the other 3 years.

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 I really don't even understand how all these applications are made with c++. It does not have all the drag and drop "components" like vb does.Or does it?

If they're made fairly recently, they're probably not made with C++. And the built in components in vb and the such will only get you so far.

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 VB programming isn't REALLY programming, imo.

How completely off base...

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 I'd imagine it is extremely difficult to get a job in the game industry without knowing how to make a window, and at the very least some knowledge of 3D graphics, and some OpenGL or D3D.

You'd be wrong...

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I think it all comes down to picking your specialty. If you want to be a graphics engine programmer then your going to need a lot more than just a good grasp of C++. If you want to be an AI/gameplay programmer mastering C++ and using already developed graphic libraries would be more than enough to get you in the industry.

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 Original post by loachmanAnyways It seems to me that c++ is not a very useful language as I thought it was.We are never going to leave the console in this course during college.How many jobs, will actually want you to make programs using the console? I'm not saying c++ is not powerful. It just seems to me like you would have to know alot more than just how to program a "console" app.

The reason you are learning C++ using only text input and output is because it is easier to learn that way. There are much more powerful interfaces and you will learn them eventually.

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I made a few games in high school using VB, Pong and a volleyball game (clone of slime volleyball...). Then, I went to DigiPen, and found out I really didn't know how to code. I knew what an if statement did, and I had a vague idea of a function. I honestly didn't know why you would use a struct for anything, nor did I know why passing by reference was different. Obviously, I didn't know what pointers were, or how classes worked.

There's a big difference between "drag" and "drop" of a command button with an if statement, and REALLY coding. But, that is just my opinion, and I know there are professional VB programmers, so I have no intentions of starting a flame war....Point is you can get by on VB without really knowing anything, and if you figure out BitBlt like I did, you could possibly think you are a great coder (like I did), although, I was absolutely clueless.

There's no reason somebody should limit theirself and not learn the basics of Win32, and OpenGL or D3D. Sure, ya MIGHT get in the industry without, but then you have A LOT to catch up on; doesn't sound fun to me...

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