Quote:Original post by MongoosemanMan, I'm good!
...
Also, it's a bit ironic that I was eating ice cream as I read through the replies.
See? you feel better already, don't you?[smile]
Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0
See? you feel better already, don't you?[smile]
I'll be the odd one out here.
I've moved to VS-2003/05 for .net stuff, but prefer VS6 for standard Windows/WTL applications. It also works nicely for OpenGL and DirectX9 stuff; Torque 1.5 uses a fairly recent DirectX9 SDK without any problems. Ogre gets around the C++ StdLib/template problems with a library. I wonder what percentage of programmers would see major problems with VS6? The major one I've ran into is the scope of variables declared in a for statement. VS6 is less cluttered than VS 2003/05. VS6 will remain my main editor for a few more years, at least; and add-ins such as Visual Assist X are adding the much needed features.
Remote debugging under VS-2003/05 is a major pain to configure (unsupported under VS 2005 Express Edition), it's very simple using VS6.
I've moved to VS-2003/05 for .net stuff, but prefer VS6 for standard Windows/WTL applications. It also works nicely for OpenGL and DirectX9 stuff; Torque 1.5 uses a fairly recent DirectX9 SDK without any problems. Ogre gets around the C++ StdLib/template problems with a library. I wonder what percentage of programmers would see major problems with VS6? The major one I've ran into is the scope of variables declared in a for statement. VS6 is less cluttered than VS 2003/05. VS6 will remain my main editor for a few more years, at least; and add-ins such as Visual Assist X are adding the much needed features.
Remote debugging under VS-2003/05 is a major pain to configure (unsupported under VS 2005 Express Edition), it's very simple using VS6.
Quote:Original post by PalidineOcassionally MS has offers where you can get Visual Studio 2005 Standard Edition for free; the latest offer may be an option for you (expires 6/30/2007, US-only).
NO!!! it's awful.
You can get a better version (Visual Studio 2005 Express Edition) for free directly from MS.
-me
Quote:Original post by cdoty
I'll be the odd one out here.
I've moved to VS-2003/05 for .net stuff, but prefer VS6 for standard Windows/WTL applications. It also works nicely for OpenGL and DirectX9 stuff;
Err, it isn't supported for DirectX. And hasn't been for at least a couple of years.
And while it may work with Windows applications, it does not work with... C++. Which is a bit of a drawback for someone looking to get into C++ development.
Quote:Torque 1.5 uses a fairly recent DirectX9 SDK without any problems. Ogre gets around the C++ StdLib/template problems with a library. I wonder what percentage of programmers would see major problems with VS6?
Roughly 110%.
Of course, not all of them may *realize* that the problems they run into are because they're running a compiler that doesn't even understand the language they think they're programming in.
Quote:and add-ins such as Visual Assist X are adding the much needed features.
What, like C++ support?
I've got VS2005 Pro, and VC++6 as well as VB6.
I think VC++6 is a cleaner, less bloated, faster IDE by a long way. However, it looks completely dated and the compiler is a joke (it didn't even understand <iostream>, threw up errors). However, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you might be able to hack it to use the more modern VS2005 compilation tools if you want the non-bloaty IDE but all the power of VS2005.
VS2005 has an interface to die for, though, it looks so good. But it's bloaty, slow and occasionally annoying as well as being sometimes difficult to find things.
I think VC++6 is a cleaner, less bloated, faster IDE by a long way. However, it looks completely dated and the compiler is a joke (it didn't even understand <iostream>, threw up errors). However, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you might be able to hack it to use the more modern VS2005 compilation tools if you want the non-bloaty IDE but all the power of VS2005.
VS2005 has an interface to die for, though, it looks so good. But it's bloaty, slow and occasionally annoying as well as being sometimes difficult to find things.
Quote:Original post by Mongooseman
A teacher recently offered to sell me Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 Professional Edition for $25,
Report him or get him fired. How can anyone be a teacher and do such a thing? Especially to a beginner programmer????
Quote: and I was wondering if that is a good deal.
As others have said, no.
Quote:I'm new to programming and game development, and I am planning on getting some books and learning C++ this summer,
Good place to look at.
Quote:but I wasn't sure if this would be helpful to me, being an outdated product. I ran into a similar problem with Visual Basic in the past, so I want to be sure that I'm making the right move before I spend any money.
You made the right move. Believe me. Click on the link ask around for some books, and take a look at the C++ workshop we have here on GameDev.
Good Luck with the learning.
Quote:Original post by Spoonbender
Err, it isn't supported for DirectX. And hasn't been for at least a couple of years.
I know it supports at least the Oct '05 version. Torque Game Engine Advanced uses it.
Quote:Original post by Spoonbender
And while it may work with Windows applications, it does not work with... C++. Which is a bit of a drawback for someone looking to get into C++ development.Quote:Torque 1.5 uses a fairly recent DirectX9 SDK without any problems. Ogre gets around the C++ StdLib/template problems with a library. I wonder what percentage of programmers would see major problems with VS6?
Roughly 110%.
Of course, not all of them may *realize* that the problems they run into are because they're running a compiler that doesn't even understand the language they think they're programming in.Quote:and add-ins such as Visual Assist X are adding the much needed features.
What, like C++ support?
It supports C++, maybe not all of the cool features of a newer spectification.
But, C++ doesn't support all of the cool features of C#, should I switch to C# because of that?
I guess, as a hobby programmer you can use the latest and greatest. When you have to ship 'real' applications to 'real' customers a bit more thought goes into selecting tools and SDKs. All of those new C++ features don't help create bug free applications. It's fun to play, but at some point in life you'll have to create 'real' applications, if you want to make a living as a programmer.
Quote:Original post by cdotyQuote:Original post by Spoonbender
Err, it isn't supported for DirectX. And hasn't been for at least a couple of years.
I know it supports at least the Oct '05 version. Torque Game Engine Advanced uses it.
Oct '05, yes. Some of us are in '07 now... :)
Original post by Spoonbender
And while it may work with Windows applications, it does not work with... C++. Which is a bit of a drawback for someone looking to get into C++ development.Quote:It supports C++, maybe not all of the cool features of a newer spectification.But, C++ doesn't support all of the cool features of C#, should I switch to C# because of that?
Eh? C++ and C# are different languages. But the language that VC++ 6.0 understands is *not* C++. it is fairly close to what C++ looked like before it was standardized. But that is notC++.Quote:
I guess, as a hobby programmer you can use the latest and greatest. When you have to ship 'real' applications to 'real' customers a bit more thought goes into selecting tools and SDKs.
Yes, and a major part of that thought is about picking a tool that is at least somewhat correct and bug-free, and doesn't require half a dozen service packs.Quote:
All of those new C++ features don't help create bug free applications.
They don't?
I'd say a compiler that acts as you expect to is a major help in writing bug-free apps.
I'd say a compiler that accepts the code you are taught (whether from a book, a school course or an online tutorial) is a fairly good start on writing bug-free code.
Whereas one that requires you to take correct code, and then break it certainly won't help you fix any bugs.Quote: It's fun to play, but at some point in life you'll have to create 'real' applications, if you want to make a living as a programmer.
I do make a living as a programmer. (well, part-time, anyway. Still have to find time for studying too) And I know my coworkers would kill me if I started wanting to use an unsupported, obsolete which doesn't even compile the language we're writing code in.
Quote:...but I think you might be able to hack it to use the more modern VS2005 compilation tools if you want the non-bloaty IDE but all the power of VS2005.
And lose use of VS2005s excellent debugger? I think I'd die without STL debugging.
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