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gdunbar

Baroque Armor and Weapons

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Hey, Can anyone recommend a reasonable resource for what armor and weapons were in use in the Baroque period? I'm looking specifically for late 1600s, Europe. An RPG resource (d20 book or what have you) would be best, because it would already be in game-friendly format, but a historical resource would do in a pinch. My feeble Google-fu doesn't really turn up anything directly relevant. Thanks for any help, Geoff

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Original post by gdunbar
Hey,

Can anyone recommend a reasonable resource for what armor and weapons were in use in the Baroque period? I'm looking specifically for late 1600s, Europe. An RPG resource (d20 book or what have you) would be best, because it would already be in game-friendly format, but a historical resource would do in a pinch.

My feeble Google-fu doesn't really turn up anything directly relevant.

Thanks for any help,
Geoff


Buff coats....


Try English civil war....


Plate armor was somewhat 'proof' against musket fire at a distance (why the leaders on horseback still wore plate armor....)




1600 snaphaunce muskets (smoothbores/early flintlock) and rifles were sporting weapons. Wheellocks (expensive not mass produced)

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gdunbar:

If you're looking to base a game off the Baroque period, I might suggest you base it on an "alternate timeline", where guns were deemed inaccurate and clumsy; while swords remained trump. Something like that. I think that would be cool. :)
(but that's just my opinion o.o )

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http://www.livinghistorylibrary.org/main.php


Copy, paste, sign up, ask, read.

You will get far better results from this than a D&D manual. Also lots of people there would be willing to help you sketch art, and even provide you with photos of original and reproduction items for the period you seek.

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Thanks for the suggestions all. (More welcome, as well!)

I am in fact planning to play a bit fast and loose with the historical details, as I'll be including magic in the game. So I can be a bit off with the weapons and armor if it suits my fancy. I would like to know the reality though, so I can claim any inaccuracies were intentional. :-)

My hope with D&D was that someone smart had already gone to the trouble of writing a historically accurate supplement. The core D&D stuff is only mildly helpful.

Geoff

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Original post by gdunbar
My hope with D&D was that someone smart had already gone to the trouble of writing a historically accurate supplement.
Geoff


Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use anything you find relating to D&D for anything you want to relate to 'history'.

It is just based on really, really bad research, and has far too much wrong with it. Things like, Chainmail, platemail, and other 'mails' are really bad and confusing. Mail doesn't mean armour, it is a word meaning net/mesh. Maille is a good spelling for a word meaning an armour made from interlinked metal rings, also makes searching databases easier.

And please, please remember swords don't weigh much. A 'heavy' sword is 6 pounds, most are under 4 pounds of steel.

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Original post by destron
gdunbar:

If you're looking to base a game off the Baroque period, I might suggest you base it on an "alternate timeline", where guns were deemed inaccurate and clumsy; while swords remained trump. Something like that. I think that would be cool. :)
(but that's just my opinion o.o )




Gustavus Adolphus might say otherwise. Massed guns (muskets) trumped swords and cavalry carrying pistols was becoming a key battle tactic. This was the time of effective (and mass produced) flintlocks and armor (breast plates anyway) being 'proofed' against gunfire.

[Edited by - wodinoneeye on April 14, 2007 1:20:31 AM]

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Original post by Qitsune
to echo Talroth: I have studied costume history and I can tell you that anything AD&D related is like pulling the info right out of your rear end.


Funny story, apparently a few years ago, someone wrote an essay on the history of weapons and the effect of the sword on Europe for some history class here at my university. One of their main sources was an AD&D handbook.

He was last heard of as being fired from some fast food place for being bad at flipping burgers.


But back on topic, what classes are you looking at? High or low class? All classes? What style of game are you going for?

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Well, since you asked, my game is an RPG (single player only). The primary setting is France; the court of Louis XIV is a backdrop too good to pass up, and Paris is pretty interesting in its own right. However, excursions to the Caribbean, Egypt, maybe London or a mythicised Timbuktu, are planned.

Being an RPG all sorts of characters are planned, high class, low class, different cultures, etc. Really, all information about weaponary of the period is needed.

Thanks,
Geoff

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Sounds like a rather massive undertaking, good luck with it. I might have time to help you with some general research to get you on your way sometime in the next few weeks.

A few tips to help with your research. Spend time in a library, look for history books that have been published in the last 30 years. 20 years would be better. Stuff dating from before the 70s is fairly risky to use, and is a little more likely to cite poor sources.

Check the works cited in the books. Can't find one or something similar, showing other books and sources, or papers on original research, then don't use it. It likely isn't worth your effort to read.

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Original post by gdunbar
Well, since you asked, my game is an RPG (single player only). The primary setting is France; the court of Louis XIV is a backdrop too good to pass up, and Paris is pretty interesting in its own right. However, excursions to the Caribbean, Egypt, maybe London or a mythicised Timbuktu, are planned.

Being an RPG all sorts of characters are planned, high class, low class, different cultures, etc. Really, all information about weaponary of the period is needed.

Thanks,
Geoff



Italy too... Werent the French still messing about in Italy at this time??

Canada ....

India (I recall part of the later 'first world war') was between the English and French fought in America(French Indian war), on the continent and in India.

French buccaneers

French dabbling in Scotland....

North Africa...




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Original post by gdunbar
Thanks for the suggestions all. (More welcome, as well!)

I am in fact planning to play a bit fast and loose with the historical details, as I'll be including magic in the game. So I can be a bit off with the weapons and armor if it suits my fancy. I would like to know the reality though, so I can claim any inaccuracies were intentional. :-)

My hope with D&D was that someone smart had already gone to the trouble of writing a historically accurate supplement. The core D&D stuff is only mildly helpful.

DnD is NOT historical. Even if they are using swords, and people in history used swords, it doesn't mean it was historical. In fact majority of fantasy are post modern. You can easily prove it from amount of literate people, and freedom of movement.
Look at for example at Star ocean 2. A main hero had a sword, was it historical?

A common threat in DnD would be a sword +1, claw of a bear, or brainsucker. Obviously none of these was problem in history. Thus while a lot of people that worked on DnD had detailed knowledge about armor and weapons, DnD in rules doesn't describe Earth history.

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Original post by wodinoneeye
Quote:
Original post by destron
gdunbar:

If you're looking to base a game off the Baroque period, I might suggest you base it on an "alternate timeline", where guns were deemed inaccurate and clumsy; while swords remained trump. Something like that. I think that would be cool. :)
(but that's just my opinion o.o )




Augustus Adolphus might say otherwise. Massed guns (muskets) trumped swords and cavalry carrying pistols was becoming a key battle tactic. This was the time of effective (and mass produced) flintlocks and armor (breast plates anyway) being 'proofed' agaist gunfire.


In our history. Destron was suggesting an alternate history where nobody saw the potential of massed muskets. It could have happened if a couple of battles had gone the other way - say the condottieri throw out the French in the War of the League of Cambrai, and everybody is convinced that the Italian armies are the pattern to follow. Or, for that matter, Tilly wins at Breitenfeld, maybe because Pappenheim manages to follow orders for a change. It would only last until someone came along with the conviction that gunpowder had had bad luck and its reputation as a loser's weapon was undeserved, and the power to make his ideas stick on a major army, but that could easily be a couple centuries. Armies are pretty conservative, and for good reasons. Think how long it took the stirrup to be accepted.

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Original post by Raghar
DnD is NOT historical. Even if they are using swords, and people in history used swords, it doesn't mean it was historical. In fact majority of fantasy are post modern. You can easily prove it from amount of literate people, and freedom of movement.
Look at for example at Star ocean 2. A main hero had a sword, was it historical?

A common threat in DnD would be a sword +1, claw of a bear, or brainsucker. Obviously none of these was problem in history. Thus while a lot of people that worked on DnD had detailed knowledge about armor and weapons, DnD in rules doesn't describe Earth history.


Perhaps I haven't explained myself well. I am quite aware the D&D is not historical. I would not use any of the DnD core rulebooks as basic references for a historical (ish) game.

However, there are countless d20 supplements published by a number of companies. A "historically accurate Weapons and Armor supplement" would be the ideal reference for me, assuming it covered the proper timeline. I was hoping someone would offhand know of such a thing. I have been disabused of this notion.

Thanks,
Geoff

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