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finky45

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finky45    100
Hi everyone. I have had this idea in my head for a long time to make a game. I have a pretty good idea of what I want it to be, but between then and now lie a lot of obstacles. I'm willing to dedicate a lot of time to this, I expect it to take me at least a year to get to a beta stage. More about me: I've been playing games since 11 when I was able to get a computer. I love good games. Among my favorites are HL, Diablo 2 and Deus Ex. I played a lot more and know what makes a good game (in my opinion). My programming knowledge is fairly limited, I took AP Programing in high school, working with C++ at first then Java. Some college courses didnt't work out so well. I basically quit on the idea after spending countless hours trying to fix simple bugs in my programs then getting frustrated to the point where I would just stop. My extent fo knowledge in C++ is displaying stuff in a text format on a screen and making libraries. In java I learned to make dialog boxes, and make simple shapes. I come here because I have lots and lots of questions and I'm sure I'll find many answers. I know about the search feature since every forum has one but I don't think I can find it helpful for this particular question. My question is, what language should I learn/make my game in? This is a relative question to the game type I am making (i think). So without revealing too much, my game is a top down real time space 2D RPG. I want it to be a multiplayer game, supporting preferably 50 players on the screen at once each in their own ship, firing missles, guns, etc. I am not looking to have amazing graphics I'm more of a content oriented person, I believe a good game starts with a solid gameplay then worry about GFX. I'm worried more about net play and connection issues. A friend told me I should make it in Flash with Actionscript 2.0. Never used flash... so I don't know. Basically I don't want to start working in a programming language then find a major problem later on which will cause me to ditch my work and begin all over again. A few pointers on where to begin would be much appreciated. Thanks folks.

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wyrmmage    146
I would recommend going with C++, Java is too slow to make games at the moment, although since yours is 2D, you might be able to get away with it if you were pretty good at Java (wouldn't recommend it, though :P). For graphics, I would recommend going with OpenGl, although many people will swear by DirectX XD
I see where you're coming from when you say that you want to concentrate on the gameplay, not the graphics, but unfortunately, this isn't really feasible. Until you have a good amount of graphics programming experience (and even afterward, most of the time), graphics will be a HUGE part of your game; I'm not talking about the quality, but just figuring out how to display them, 'seeing' when your bullet collides with a ship, etc. takes up a lot of your time until you get good at it.
I would recommend making something like 'pong' as a starter...that's what I did before I jumped into 3D and almost drowned myself :P
Good luck man; it's lots of fun :)
-wyrmmage

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andrew1123    122
I would start in Game Maker. (www.gamermaker.nl or yoyogames.com)

I started in Game Maker. That was before I had even heard of BASIC, C, and all other programming languages. In Game Maker, you can drag and drop commands to make your game, or you can use the built in language, GML (Game Maker Language). I started out using D & D. Then slowly, I switched to all GML. Its an easy way to make games, and it doesn't feel like the programs doing it for you because of the built in GML. Give it a try. There's a free version (No 3d, some other functions taken away, and an add displayed when you start your game.) If you buy it for $20 (15 euros) you get everything. There's also built in online gaming, you can use DLLs (No windows API), and there's a forum, too, where you can show off your games, and rate others.

As for C++ or Java, theyre more challenging, but there arent nearly as many boundries. I can't do squat in C++ or java. I just can't get the hang of OOP for some reason. but im taking Java in school next year.

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finky45    100
Thanks guys, after looking around I found a load of info on this website. I love this site! I decided to go with Visual/C++ after reading 2 articles, it seems like it has a lot of potential and I like C++ better than Java.

andrew I'm not going to do Game Maker because I want to learn programming, and at some point I want to be selling my game for a few bucks.

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SimonForsman    7642
Quote:
Original post by wyrmmage
I would recommend going with C++, Java is too slow to make games at the moment


Odd, last time i looked it was fast enough for 3D games even :) (Performance is about the same as with C#/XNA)

JOGL 1.1.0 was released april 26th this year with support for OpenGL 2.1 + the nvidia G80 extensions (equivalent to D3D10 in terms of features and performance)

For some older Java 3D games you might want to take a look at Jake2 (java port of the quake2 engine).

Nascar also uses Java and JOGL for trackpass.
http://www.nascar.com/trackpass/about/raceview/

Java hasn't really been slow since it started using JIT compilation. (a couple of years ago).

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Zahlman    1682
Quote:
Original post by wyrmmage
I would recommend going with C++, Java is too slow to make games at the moment, although since yours is 2D, you might be able to get away with it if you were pretty good at Java (wouldn't recommend it, though :P).


1) No language is "slow", any more than the road you drive on is "slow". Speed is a property of the code.
2) Java isn't "interpreted", or whatever else you might be thinking causes the code to run "slowly". Hasn't been for years. The bytecode is profiled and translated to native code at runtime.
3) There is no such thing as "too slow to make games". Expand your definition of "game" just a little, please.

Quote:
I see where you're coming from when you say that you want to concentrate on the gameplay, not the graphics, but unfortunately, this isn't really feasible.


Um, yes, it is absolutely is. In fact, it's fantastically easier to do so.

Quote:
Until you have a good amount of graphics programming experience (and even afterward, most of the time), graphics will be a HUGE part of your game; I'm not talking about the quality, but just figuring out how to display them, 'seeing' when your bullet collides with a ship, etc. takes up a lot of your time until you get good at it.


Um, no, it absolutely will not be. In fact, there are entire genres of games which require no graphics whatsoever.

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JohnBolton    1372
Quote:
Original post by finky45
... Some college courses didnt't work out so well. I basically quit on the idea after spending countless hours trying to fix simple bugs in my programs then getting frustrated to the point where I would just stop. ... Basically I don't want to start working in a programming language then find a major problem later on which will cause me to ditch my work and begin all over again.


Having to start over is common. I'm kind of curious. Are you now willing to spend countless hours to fix simple bugs? Maybe programming just isn't for you.

Anywya, if you want to spend less time chasing simple bugs, then I suggest that you start with something other than C++. Python is a good choice. Java might be better because you already have some experience with it. ActionScript is definitely a viable option for some types of games. GameMaker is appropriate for people that want to make games, but don't want to learn programming first.

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finky45    100
[quote = "JohnBolton"]Having to start over is common. I'm kind of curious. Are you now willing to spend countless hours to fix simple bugs? Maybe programming just isn't for you.

Anywya, if you want to spend less time chasing simple bugs, then I suggest that you start with something other than C++. Python is a good choice. Java might be better because you already have some experience with it. ActionScript is definitely a viable option for some types of games. GameMaker is appropriate for people that want to make games, but don't want to learn programming first.[/quote]

I am willing. The difference is that I don't have a grade dependent on it and I can come online for help if I need to. My programming instuctors were very unhelpful in my classes. (What is up with that anyway?).

I'm looking around right now for a good tutorial with exercises to practice what I learn. I know I should buy a book but I'm short on cash atm. I tried going to the library but they are out. I already checked out 3 tutorials and they have refreshed my memory on what I learned, but I need some problems to do and practice so I don't forget.

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Ezzaral    122
On the Java side, you might check out www.cokeandcode.com. There are tutorials on creating a 2d space invaders game and a 3d asteroids game.

If you decided to pursue the c++ route, nehe.gamedev.net has good tutorials on OpenGL, but that's the only C++ stuff that I have any personal experience with.

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