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Rokinbilly57

Game to bring ALL Gamers together (input GREATLY appreciated)

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Please be as synical as needed, this game is being designed on the ideas/opinions and wantss of the gaming community not just one person. Warnin, this is a LONG post, and there is lots of info here. I have the base for my concept legaly protected so I dont mind "exposing" myself a lil. Basis for desighn: My entire family and I are gamers of all sorts, genres and experience. However regardless of how often we play games we rarley play together do to our interests. However there is a rare occasion when we will play some games together that have a sort of "Hybrid build". Gamers ALL love games, but how do I put em in one world and have em compete and play together? How can I get the "Headshot" and the XP grinder in the same game? How I came about my information: Over the last 6 yrs I have been researching some of the best selling games on different platforms to find a happy medium. information was aquired a number of ways from MANY different gamers. Casual, hardcore, sports, FPS, RPG, MMO, Strag any and all you can think of I attacked for information. This enabled me to see the more favorable games of all platforms and genres, why they played them and why they stopped playing and what would draw them back. My Conclusion: I found that the ONLY thing about any game that brought people together was Competition and Bragging rights. They all had different tastes for what they did, some collected things, some did quests, some like getting reputation with factions, some liked PVP others just wanted to race go carts. People ALL liked different things and that WAS an issue. I Finally found it, the happy medium, how to please any and all gamers and put em in one BIG box, by offering them a world that continues to grow and develop based on the gamers themselves, allowing them to interact with others as well as compete with others. Finally the ALL the nerds in one box, Sim, RPG, FPS, Adventure, Strategy, and any other can come along as well. Starting off/Character Design: The game will start as an avatar of yourself, a simple desighn of shapes size eyes, nothing fancy, just lots of fun options. (imagine a slightly more indepth avatar desighn kinda like with Wii). From there you will be placed in a small Studio apartment. with a few things to interact with, the apartmen will be customizeable with items and prizes you can get later in game (furniture in game will allow different options in game) Example: if you get a computer in game for room then youll be able to check some special online browsers with people selling items for game. This will be smaller examples and will dive into those of you who loved sims and animal crossing. Your buddy Bot/Monster: Ok, weve ALL seen this before, but really who DOESNT like the idea of having your own lil pet/robot partner to either put havoc to the town or just dress up real cute. Youll Start with kinda a Skeleton looking bot, naked more a less. It will start with simple stats and follows you around (control will be directed to bot when needed for gameplay). This bot is FULLY customizeable lvl, but not to be intimidating at ALL. it will have simple layout, Body, arms, legs head, and maybe some other things as well, like Circuits and such (more along the lines of rpg aspects or even some sports games) customize your GUY! There will be many ways to obtain this gear and every piece will play a different role and have a different affect. Also kinda think along lines of Pokemon/medabots/armored Core. These items can be bought, rewards from different events, competitions or ANY number of things. The reason being if you want a badass bot, or you want certain items then youll WANT to do lots of differnt things in game, if its just fishing or racing or some AWESOME arena action with PVP. There are SO many more finer points in detail I have in paper, but all this is just to see what you as gamers think of what you all have Potentially created over the years =). Customize your buddy bot: Everything on your bot will have an effect on the overall performance of him in different areas of the game. They will all look different and unique making LOTS of original ideas. Some items will be silly looking like mabe a Hippo head or body set, maybe some will look like neat ninja gear or even sports attire. The idea being that there are SOOO many different things in game that people can show their interests in Real life as well with their bots. but this is the neat twist. There WILL be those gamers that are in it to be the Kings of the worl. There will also be special sets that may offer special bonuses to performance. Example: A "Dragon King" set may offer a plus 2 jump ability and is a 4 piece set, but these pieces can ONLY be attained by doing Differnt types of games, head is a Race event, legs are a Quest reward, and maybe the arms are an item that can only be bought by LOTS of moneys. This will motivate gamers to want to enjoy ALL aspects of game, Forcing differnt gamers into different elements of gameplay. Getting Gear for your bot/buddy: This is the part that is gonna be neat. in games people are always given rewards. But thats only applied to the game they play. If you spendin all your time fishing or collecting furniture in different games then you dont reap ANY benefits in the arena game you wanna play later, or the racing game your playin with your buddies later. but in this world you can do so amny other things, so many ways to take breaks and just chat. And most anything you do will offer you currency in the same game as well as reputations and items that you can use for other games in that world! here is how. Remember your gearin a cute lil Bot here. Lets say you want to do some racing, cool take it to a small Cartracer type of game, the gameplay wont be CRAZY, but it will be fun, and the competition of other gamers will keep you busy. If you win a few race there or maybe certain events then youll get rewards that you can either put in your room, on yourself or even on your bot (and credits to shop as well of course). Example: lets say you win a low ranked circuit race against other actual players. Youll be rewarded special boots ONLY available in that area from that race event, Those boots will be have a unique affect on your bot. There will be MANY ways to aquire gear in game, Small quests, Shops, Friends, holiday events, or maybe you just find it (possibly buy with money online hehe =)). Leaving for Town: Outside of your apartment/studio (think of that as an interactive menu screen, instead of just highlighting things youll actually move to different areas of your room to acess different game functions). The towns will all be there own servers and of VERY simple design (think more along the lines of city desighn of mega man legends/pokemon) so as to be a city but not anything crazy detailed, just a simple layout. All cities will be diferent as they will be Servers and the servers will develop based on how the gamers play and interact on that particular server. The City: This is the largest area in game, think of it as a GIANT game lobby that allows you to interact with people and make new friends as well as maybe some rivals. The city will have many different things in it like most cities would, dependent on the server size or how many people are on it will determine how big the city itself is. Every area of the city will offer something different. Shops, Ponds for fishing, small sports arena, information centers, and some job areas as well (think more along the lines of a simple version of a main city for an MMO or basic RPG, however very direct aand easy to navigate and kinda cute lookin). All these things in city will be there own versions of lil games, all with their own formulas, prizes and things to use with people to interact with. Shops: There will be many themed shops differnt styles/Genres/Gamers shops. All of these shops will be different and offer different items. Some need access thorugh reputation, some need higher ranks in some part of game. Some are access to all gamers. Example: A general store may sell some simple items, for use in battle, bait for fishing, and maybe some materials for a job class or two. This will be available to any gamer off the bat where as some shops maybe need more than one accomplishment to have access like higher ranked PVP and the like, or maybe higher faction allighnment. (again, the formula is already played out in my notes with details). Arena: Im not gonna lie, this will be a BIG focus in game, and ill tell you why. No matter what kinda gamer you are or want to be, EVERYBODY likes to team up and beat eachother up, it is competition in its purest form (Halo/UT/CS/Battlefield) This is where all your bot pieces are put together to suit up and womp eachother out. It will be set in middle of town in most cases and will offer MANY types of gameplay. CTF, 1V1, Rumbles, Organized co-op play, Anything and everything you name it we got it. This is under the influence that SO many people LOVED multiplayer of Halo but there is strategy to it as well. but simple play for any of you who just wanna punch somebody and not get to crazy. Melee matches, Stealth/speed matches, ranged matches, Free for all brawl matches. Bottom line: There are WAY to many details to entail on this sheet.formulas are VERY easy to work out. I assure you if it was complained about, loved liked or anything else I noted it. I took the best of all worlds here and included them in one world. And YES, I know it seems VERY complicated, but its really not, the formats are simple as well the I need ideas Criticism and some input, be as mean as you need guys, this is all a giant math problem to me, im doing this on my own only because all of you like to say what you do and dont like. I ahve the ENTIRE world on paper, im not so good with programming, I was always the person to study ideas, work out math, study markets sales. I LOVE to learn from other peoples mistakes that way I dont have to learn from my own =) hehe. Thats why you all tell me what needs to be done. Help: if there are any of you in the LA area who would like to be a part of this project PLEASE contact me via Email. or hey if your not from LA maybe we can work at a distance. Either way, ANY input id love! and if your wanting to help or maybe know of any developers who would like to pick me and my baby up then let me know =). I wont rest until this game becomes a cinderella story and is known as a game that gamers made over the years. [Edited by - Rokinbilly57 on May 4, 2007 11:59:08 PM]

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Sounds like a MMO pretending to be Halloween at Chuck E Cheese's with the addition of a trophy room for all the crappy prizes you can earn playing lameass skeetball machines...

"Hey, its me dressed up as a witch (player avitar) and this is my kid lil' Billy dressed up as a ape (bot buddy). I'm sorry Billy, your just not good enough to play Wack-a-Mole yet (bot buddy still lacks armspeed+2 gloves needed to meet minimum playable hand speed for wack-a-mole game) so lets try some more Skeetball...again...and maybe we can get enough tickets to get you those gloves."

...Oh yeah! Like I'm gonna drop Ikaruga, and dive right into that kinda game :P









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I see the point your making. ultimatley that is the right idea more a less, but not with skeeball. and as people will be in different leagues areas as well as gear will allow for different types of players to do different types of things.

As those other things like "skiball" are available they are not what is needed to do things in game.

They are merely a way of taking a lil break from other aspects of game, and while your doing that youll be able to earn some credits towards the game itselfg. Think of it as a Giant game lobby that allows for many different types of gameplay at once.
where as you may think of it to be chuckie cheese for video games other games only have "whack a mole" and some games only have "skiball" im tryin to provide the lil parts of bigger games that had great reaction in the open market.
But I am glad to hear more criticism on the matter, it helps me see concerns that people may have with the idea.

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That was a useful link ThankS! I seemed to do ok on the test through and through, and all the issues here are not neccesarily releveant to me in this scenario. My game is not built on the idea of "OH I think this is coool" its built around the idea of "man you nerds are picky why is halo not good enough cause you cant take cover" or "pokemon doesnt have proper controls to REALLY let me battle" These complaints and inquiries are what have made this concept come to play. Its a numbers game. Before I even so muched as TOUCHED a piece of paper to draw a cute monster I got NUMBER.
I have always been on the marketing side of work, probing, profiling, watching potential for international markets whos flopping why and what could have been done to prevent that. I spent all of my time in school for that instead of school for desighning characters and making projects happen.
I dont want people to take a shot on my idea, I expect to drop money into it. All franchises cost money to make money.
EVERY piece of data in game is tested, Questioned, compared and I personally look at every HORRIBLE aspect of the game. However this concept is not here to be a cry out for help, its an idea posted in forum about what people do or dont like about it. However all Im seeing is how they think it wont work...
Guys I just want to know why, This game is supposed to be made on the taste of gamers...
What is in this that you like, what dont you like, what would you like to see?

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Quote:

What is in this that you like


It sounds like Pogo.com crossed with MySpace.

Quote:

what dont you like


It sounds like it was put together by a marketing committe with little understanding of why particular games work. Its seems so focused on the whole compitition/bragging rights crap that the soul of any game (the pure enjoyment of playing) seems ignored.

It also sounds very unrealistic. There are sound technical reasons why fast FPS action games arn't networked to the same scale as much slower MMORPGs. There are sound technical reasons why your game hasn't been made yet either despite it being a idea that is almost a rite of passage for nearly every newbie to these boards.

Quote:

what would you like to see?


Have a look around at all the RPG basied threads in this forum. Each generaly details a fairly specific RPG game design issue and various possable solutions...Certainly you realise that they too are potential customers for your epic. How are you going to please each and every one of them when they can't even agree completely on design issues?

Same for FPS players, RTS players, puzzle gamers, SHMUPers, TBS players, card game players, laserdisc gamers, pinball gamers, retro gamers, survival horror gamers, adventure gamers, SIMs gamers, and every other nitch gamer out there?

Thats the real core gameplay stuff that counts...and no amount of options/trinkets/gear is going to mask it if its missing.



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I have been doing my best to keep up to tabs with all gamers possible. I have watched for likes and dislikes functions as well as issues.

The idea ontop is only the base idea more than not. I have more indepth details regarding formula, engines, as well as appeal to markets with math to proove theroies.

As far as it being market based, that is VERY much the idea. The gaming industry is one of the few HUGE industries that doesnt put most of its focus into market and sale figures before major launches.

I Wanted to see the overall outcome if that aspect had been brought out first, then the gameplay will be build around the market research that had showd me exatly what gamers would want in a game or more appropriatley the development of an interactive gaming community.

I suppose really its just a Giant Myspace with lots of little things to do, and the only way to "Pimp Your PAGE" is by playing games. That doesnt sound that bad. Even people who dont play games hardcore like myspace and vis versa. The idea is not to be BEST FPS EVER, or BEST RPG EVER. But be an enjoyeable game with good gameplay and something not to intimidating to people who may not be so into the gaming industry. The casual gamers as well as the Elitist.

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To me it sounds like mashing all those different types of gameplay together in one game would just produce a game that isn't very good in any particular area; it'd have elements that could potentially appeal to plenty of different player types, but nothing would be particularly well developed and trying to play well would probably force players to engage in a lot of gameplay they don't really enjoy.

Taking a typical FPS player for example, why would they play your game which includes FPS elements amongst all the other cruft rather than simply getting a regular FPS which consists entirely of gameplay they like and expect? Apply the same thing for each genre you plan to incorporate; most of these games are very complex, and to do the genre in question justice your mini-games would basically have to be acceptable standalone games anyway.

Quote:
The gaming industry is one of the few HUGE industries that doesnt put most of its focus into market and sale figures before major launches.
No it isn't. If the industry didn't put much focus into marketting a sales figures you'd probably see a much more interesting variety of gameplay out there. People may complain a lot about the games currently being produced, but those same people still pay a lot of money to buy the games and the industry will continue to produce them as long as they're profitable.



I could see your idea working in a modified form as a sort of portal/community for casual games which are very short and simple, but I don't think integrating things like FPS and RTS gameplay would be succesful.

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I am gonna kinda dissagree with you on that note of game companies using full marketing. You DO see lots of intersting games out there, you see em all the time and lots of em fail, that is why there are so many games out there for 10.99 and games that flop right off the bat. Becuase items arent tested to a full extent they are given a title or given a deadline to develop.
marketing is my buisness, its what I do for a living in the los angelese entertainment industry.
The concept to move the GBA around with wario ware looked cute and was odd, but nothing happend it flooped, the concept of shaking your psp around to make a piece of murcury around was innovative but it flopped, katamari damacy, as neat as it was in the Japanes market FLOPPED in the american market. Yea some of these things were cool to the small elite market of gamers, but as a whole the HARDCORE gamer who reads magazines and desighns games is a very small faction of poteIntial value to game production.

The focus on gameplay allows for easy play and controls themselves, that is the idea, the simple fun factors not the standalone for the reason that I dont want people to just play racing or fishing or fighting or shooting, the idea is to make them move and the controls be simple and enjoyable.

Mariokart handled easy and you could pick up and play, powerstone was easy to control and was fun for many to play lots of games had simple factors in them that made them enjoyable, this is the idea im looking for.

The LAST thing I want is to simulate big bass fishing, I want it to be simple and easy to play like a variation of some zelda fishin with some extra prizes and options, the same applies for alll other things as well.

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I am gonna kinda dissagree with you on that note of game companies using full marketing. You DO see lots of intersting games out there, you see em all the time and lots of em fail, that is why there are so many games out there for 10.99 and games that flop right off the bat. Becuase items arent tested to a full extent they are given a title or given a deadline to develop.
marketing is my buisness, its what I do for a living in the los angelese entertainment industry.
The concept to move the GBA around with wario ware looked cute and was odd, but nothing happend it flooped, the concept of shaking your psp around to make a piece of murcury around was innovative but it flopped, katamari damacy, as neat as it was in the Japanes market FLOPPED in the american market. Yea some of these things were cool to the small elite market of gamers, but as a whole the HARDCORE gamer who reads magazines and desighns games is a very small faction of poteIntial value to game production.

The focus on gameplay allows for easy play and controls themselves, that is the idea, the simple fun factors not the standalone for the reason that I dont want people to just play racing or fishing or fighting or shooting, the idea is to make them move and the controls be simple and enjoyable.

Mariokart handled easy and you could pick up and play, powerstone was easy to control and was fun for many to play lots of games had simple factors in them that made them enjoyable, this is the idea im looking for.

The LAST thing I want is to simulate big bass fishing, I want it to be simple and easy to play like a variation of some zelda fishin with some extra prizes and options, the same applies for alll other things as well.

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Original post by Rokinbilly57
The gaming industry is one of the few HUGE industries that doesnt put most of its focus into market and sale figures before major launches.


Um...what planet are you on?

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im here to get input from developers, I already have input from gamers, why is it that you just keep comming back to talk trash.
Please, input on ideas, im trying to find the over all potential of the game.
And as I said before, I am in marketing, they DONT focus most of their attention to marketing and sales, they focus their attention to the newer and better engines, or scropts for hollywood plot twists, or even rights to movie based films.
Im not saying companies just out and throw stuff on the market hoping people will buy it, im saying MOST companies dont put enough research into likes and dislikes of gamers. Its usually about taking chances, the entire industry was on taking chances, now its about hype, an interest of a major film title has nothing to do with gameplay being that most games bought will be for gifts, like a nimo game. or spider man, or super man.
When these games are brought to the table its not an issue where people will spend time asking gamers "hey what would you like to see in super man" that is open marketing.
I didnt put this post up for trash talking I want to see the issues, you already gave me some, AWESOME, I see them and am taking them to heart to fine tune what designs I have as well as taking what I can at face value.
But by all means openly express how big you are by belittling my opinions.
I offered the opportunity to anyone who would like to see the overall desighn of the game, its more a less a finished product, and there is already interest from a few 3rd party companies. My ENITRE reason for being here was to see what developers saw when they saw this. if you see trash, neat then you see trash. However You and maybe a few other arent so bad under circumstances of how many people have viwed the concept. under the idea that this place is where I WILL see the most synical of people I only really have 3 complaints, all others that have gotten the concept emailed at full loved the idea. and the things they didnt like they told me and I work it into the idea to see what gamers think as well.

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Quote:
Original post by Rokinbilly57
And as I said before, I am in marketing, they DONT focus most of their attention to marketing and sales


yes, publishers most certainly do focus much on marketing and sales...

proof right here:
Quote:

they focus their attention to the newer and better engines, or scropts for hollywood plot twists, or even rights to movie based films.


It cost money to place advertisements, it cost money to run TV commercials. the marketing department knows full well that those advertisements and marketing dollars go so much further if they are for a known consumer commodity....like a hit movie, like a established and popular game franchise, like an highly anticipated piece of new game engine technology.

Yes there is marketing focus groups, yes there is marketing research, but that is only one part of any task marketing has before it. Bottom line is that marketing is about generateing consumer awareness and excitement...its about generateing that hype inorder to exploit every possible game sale.



But you are here for ideas, right?

Here is one...Go back and read that fantastic FAQ put together by tsloper. Then come up with some game idea far, far, FAR less abitious...Come up with something direct and simple, like one of those minigames in your uber game. Then focus all your efforts into getting THAT done, getting THAT marketed, out the door, and makeing you money.



And for the record Katamari Damacy most certainly did NOT flop in America, it actualy outsold expectations. ( http://www.theesa.com/archives/2005/05/e3_2005_state_o_1.php <= According to this it sold over 120,000 copies in the US during 2004...keep in mind it was released at the end of September that year. So that total is for two months in the marketplace ;)










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Quote:
Original post by Rokinbilly57
katamari damacy, as neat as it was in the Japanes market FLOPPED in the american market.
[...]
The concept to move the GBA around with wario ware looked cute and was odd, but nothing happend it flooped
...and here's one of your problems; Katamari Damacy was anything but a flop, and while not brilliant Warioware has also been quite succesful. A number of your facts are unfortunately simply incorrect, you might want to try going back for another round of research. [wink]

Quote:
Its usually about taking chances, the entire industry was on taking chances
It's actually almost never about taking chances actually, your examples of Katamari Damacy and Warioware go against the trend in that regard.

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Talking from a developer standpoint, I would absolutely shudder in how long it would be in development for given that that you need to develop a networking framework for an MMORPG environment that supports multiple game worlds and genre rules. This on top of developing the other dozen genres involved in the design document. The money needed to produce would insanely huge for something that is unproven to be a hit.

It really does sound like you are taking two games and gluing them together, the 'Arena' is the main game and the 'World' is just a 3D lobby. i.e. FPS game + Second Life/Sony Home.

I don't think any developer or publisher would touch this due to the time and money needed to complete this.

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Quote:
Original post by Rokinbilly57
Please be as synical as needed, this game is being designed on the ideas/opinions and wantss of the gaming community not just one person.

vs.
Quote:
Original post by Rokinbilly57
But by all means openly express how big you are by belittling my opinions.

Sounds to me like you're just bad at accepting criticism. You came looking for honest feedback, and everyone's telling you that they think it's a bad idea. But if you want to keep asking until you get someone to tell you what you want to hear, by all means continue.

I, along with the masses, see this as too much of a pipe dream and not enough reality. If for no other reason than the issue of network latency and architecture: the various playstyles just wouldn't mesh in any kind of cost-friendly manner.

Also:
Quote:
Original post by Rokinbilly57
And as I said before, I am in marketing


I honestly hope you mean you're a marketing student, and not in the industry, as I have a hard time envisioning a marketing department that would let you work there with the grammar and spelling skills you're using. Take the time to organize your thoughts, hit the enter key once in a while, and you might present a more cohesive idea (as well as more legible). Regardless of your real persona, posts like this come off as "sugar-crazed emphatic teenager."


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I do see some good elements in the game but I don't think that this game will appeal to all gamers. (I don't even know if any game can) The first thing that sticks out to me is sombody who doesn't want to build their robot, they just want to play the game. I also think that some gamers would want everybody on a level playing field and not have somebody have an advantage because they have had more time to improve their robot.

I also would see people getting bored with the game when they feel like they have reached the limit of progress. Once the players has an uber-powerfull bot what does the player do then?

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To get this out of the way: there is absolutely no possible way that you can make this game. You can tweak the idea and plan it out to your heart's content if it makes you happy, but it would take a team of experienced programmers, a few years, and a couple million dollars to complete this game as you describe it.

I'm not sure that you are fully aware of how complicated these things are to make. You admit that you are not good at programming, that would be the best place to start. Try to write a simple game like Tetris or Pac Man, you will learn that even simple things you take for granted like collision detection and animation are quite hard to do on your own.

To be blunt, you absolutely have to have some programming experience of your own before you can expect to gather a team of homebrew programmers and lead them to the creation of your game. If it was possible to just be a "game designer" based entirely on your ability to come up with cool game ideas, then thats all anybody would ever do. Its not as hard as you think to come up with awesome, innovative game ideas.. the reason why so many commercial games are limited in scope is because epic games are very hard to make, and its simply not possible to include all your ideas into a project because it would take decades to complete.

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