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Advice on Dating Sim

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Hi. I've been working on Flash for some time already and the moment, and I've been wanting to make a dating sim similar to the one my brother plays - also known as SimGirl. However, I want to make it for girls this time round, and I've got the following ideas in my head. I've written them down below:

(I) Main character

  • May choose between black, brunette and blonde
  • New in town
  • Has a mobile phone
  • Choose name, weight and height
  • (II)Guys (The list so far consists of only 3 - with one accessed only by a cheat)

    1. Roy

  • Lead guitarist of band
  • Lives in apartment, and has average income
  • Sweet, caring, protective
  • 2. Seth

  • Most popular guy in the school
  • Rich, and lives in mansion
  • Cool, aloof, easy-going
  • 3. Archer (accessible only by cheat)

  • Is an angel
  • Caring, a listener
  • Takes player to special places
  • That's all I have so far. There are also the usual stats (fitness, figure, charisma, charm and health), the jobs (so far, modelling and tutoring) and the locations for various places (i.e. home, mall, beach, dating locations, job agency and the gym). I'm not sure on the number of guys yet. I might add a few more onto the list, but that's for later.

    Some constructive advice and criticism would be nice. Thanks for taking time to read my post.

    Ciao

    FrozenAndTainted

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    I'd love to see a dating sim for women with gettable male characters. [smile] (my own designs are usually rpgs with dating-sim elements where you can pick a male or female pc and court both male and female npcs). Weight and height are not particularly important or interesting unless you're going to have those choices actually affect how the playable character looks. Being able to choose hair color is nice. If you're looking for ideas for guys, you might search the internet for "favorite bishounen" or "bishounen popularity contest" or "favorite male anime character" or "hottest male anime character". Personally I think that the interactive story and the art are the most important elements of a dating sim, so I would get the story planned out asap.

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    Thanks a lot! I've already have in my mind what I want the guys to look like (though I can't draw it - I'm horrible at drawing). I was wondering - by what you meant of interactive story, does it mean that it has a storyline and limited events or just a basic plot?

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    Great to see that someone else is making a dating sim! I don't think that the player should have to enter their haircolor or their weight and height - unless there are more guys (at least more than 3) available to get that have certain "preferences".

    Definately focus on the story and the art. The art will draw people in to play ad the story makes them want to stay. Also don't drive yourself mad making 25 possible endings for each character. Just start with one plot path per male, and then add choices to the game that fork from that path to create the good and bad endings.

    Just my suggestion, good luck!

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    I have not played many dating sims but I have seen an appaling amount of "buy the girl's love by giving her trivial crap over and over." I doubt that would port well to seducing a male character, it already does poorly to seduce a female one. I'd like to see a dancing mini game for dates...

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    Quote:
    Original post by FrozenAndTainted
    Thanks a lot! I've already have in my mind what I want the guys to look like (though I can't draw it - I'm horrible at drawing). I was wondering - by what you meant of interactive story, does it mean that it has a storyline and limited events or just a basic plot?


    By an interactive story I meant that different things happen depending on what the player says to the guys, or any other choices the player gets to make in the game. _Interactive_ means story must _react_ to the player's _actions_ (and then the player in turn will react to the story, repeat till you get to the end).

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    Quote:
    Original post by Qitsune
    I have not played many dating sims but I have seen an appaling amount of "buy the girl's love by giving her trivial crap over and over." I doubt that would port well to seducing a male character, it already does poorly to seduce a female one. I'd like to see a dancing mini game for dates...


    I've not played any dateing sims yet...But if they feature a "buy the girls love" strategy for success, then how can they be honestly considered sims (as in simulations)?


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    Quote:
    Original post by MSW
    if they feature a "buy the girls love" strategy for success, then how can they be honestly considered sims (as in simulations)?

    Maybe they are simulations of a kind of "dating" you're not considering.

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    Don't worry, I wasn't even considering going over so many storylines! Okay, maybe in due time yes, but for the time being... hm... I think that's out of the agenda for the time being, as I'm juggling between my academic studies and my own free time.


    I have to agree on the "Buy the girl's/guy's love" point, though some people do use that sort of dating method. I don't know what to make of it (no offence intended here)Yes, there has been a sim made for girls at one point in Newgrounds - the link is here (they have a second version out), but then it was kinda weird for me, cause I had to keep buying really expensive gifts for the guys... Forgive me for stereotyping, but isn't it supposed to be the guy buying the gifts for the girl? Some of my friends say yes, while others say that women should try that out... hn...


    Thanks for taking time to respond! :)

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    A dating sim isn't a dating sim without baggage... that seems to be my experience with dating anyhow. I know it's nice to have prestine characters to shoot for, but that is rarely the case for me. Perhaps it's because I'm addicted to cougars or something.

    Perhaps it's just my jadedness that does it... but the characters seem to have no personality flaws... which is nice and all, but doesn't simulate what I've been going through. Perhaps they could be implemented in some kind of "fear" that once must quell or overcome... or perhaps just accept.

    I don't know, never played one... sounds interesting.

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    Maby you can make it so that the boys offer you gifts and depending on the gift (cheap or a bad taste) you can say if you want it or not. If you accept cheap gifts the boys can handle you as a whore maby there can also something be done with the bad taste gifts but I have no idea right now. Just a simple idea but it will realy turn the dating sim around. This time you are the one they want and not the other way around, maby you can work out something that its your job to get their attention but in a way that they don't know you are trying to get their attention. And let the guys do the hard job:D.

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    If it's just a swap of gender, then you only need to change the graphics from an existing sim. If it's an inversion, then you get to try to play the game from the other side, which is interesting. I think I played an old version of SimGirl, and the girls' side of the game consisted primarily of wearing tight shirts, spending my money and not putting out, even if you "win". I assume you want your gameplay to be deeper than that.

    Tjaalie's idea is quite good, but it starts to sound disturbingly like a "boy-training sim", which I guess makes sense. My memories were of writing down favorite foods and calculating ideal moneymaking strategies. Having the NPCs try to do that would be good.

    But what's the victory condition? In the girl-chasing version, the objective was always to get the girl to reach some relationship plateau, like a date/kiss/screw. As the girl, you could give it up at any time. Should the goal be to attract "average" guys and then use them as leverage to attract "better" guys until you marry the millionaire?

    Maybe each guy has some treasure, and if you can keep him interested without becoming old-hat, he'll eventually want you so badly that he'll give it to you. I piece of jewelry, magic makeup, wads of cash, whatever, that you can use to increase your charm and appeal to pursue a better guy.

    This is more like a teasing and dumping sim, I guess, but you'd have to avoid bad reputations, too, like "slut" or "black widow" or "prude". Proper "mourning periods" after a breakup and before the next guy, relocating to new towns, whatever it takes to hunt the perfect husband.

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    Some help with simulating the female mind.

    do
    do
    x = RND(infinity + 1) mod iNumberofOptions
    Select Case x
    Case
    ....
    End Select
    If !oSignificantOther.PutUpwith(x) Then
    bNoSex = True
    End If
    If rWeek Mod 4 Then
    bSulk = True
    bNoSex = True
    End If
    loop until bDumpMale or bBetterMaleFound
    oSignificantOther.SlagOff(oFormerBF)
    loop

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    Quote:
    Original post by ROBERTREAD1
    Some help with simulating the female mind.

    do
    do
    x = RND(infinity + 1) mod iNumberofOptions
    Select Case x
    Case
    ....
    End Select
    If !oSignificantOther.PutUpwith(x) Then
    bNoSex = True
    End If
    If rWeek Mod 4 Then
    bSulk = True
    bNoSex = True
    End If
    loop until bDumpMale or bBetterMaleFound
    oSignificantOther.SlagOff(oFormerBF)
    loop
    If only it could fit in a signature...

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    Quote:
    Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
    Quote:
    Original post by ROBERTREAD1
    Some help with simulating the female mind.

    do
    do
    x = RND(infinity + 1) mod iNumberofOptions
    Select Case x
    Case
    ....
    End Select
    If !oSignificantOther.PutUpwith(x) Then
    bNoSex = True
    End If
    If rWeek Mod 4 Then
    bSulk = True
    bNoSex = True
    End If
    loop until bDumpMale or bBetterMaleFound
    oSignificantOther.SlagOff(oFormerBF)
    loop
    If only it could fit in a signature...


    Good, but far too predictable.

    Instead, assuming MoodTable = {...} of moods where 0 is deeply and eternally in love, and N involves your involuntary genitalia surgery with a spoon:


    function EvaluateTodaysMood()
    local N = table.getn(MoodTable);
    CurrentMood = rand() % N;
    if (LipStickOnCollar) then CurrentMood += [10]; end
    if (LateHome) then CurrentMood += [10]; end
    if (RevealingPicturesWithSomeoneElseOnYoutube) CurrentMood = N; end
    return MoodTable[CurrentMood];
    end




    (Lua implementation, though it can be implemented in any other language relationships are negotiated in)

    [Edited by - __ODIN__ on May 24, 2007 5:39:16 PM]

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    I don't mean to be insulting, but who is the target market for these "dateing sims"?

    ...Honestly, there are reasons why in the real world the dateing scene is called a game, so I can't really see "dateing sims" as an educational tool...that would be like learning to ride a bike by sitting around all day playing Paperboy on MAME.

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    Quote:
    Original post by MSW
    I don't mean to be insulting, but who is the target market for these "dateing sims"?

    ...Honestly, there are reasons why in the real world the dateing scene is called a game, so I can't really see "dateing sims" as an educational tool...that would be like learning to ride a bike by sitting around all day playing Paperboy on MAME.


    Isn't that like saying who'd play an extreme sports or hunting game? If her target is casual gamers and woman then she could end up with a popular title.

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    Actually, for this dating sim, I actually decided to work on it because I personally decided that majority of the dating sims were for guys and girls didn't really have a lot of choice (no offence to anyone here). Thanks for the codes too :). So I could probably say that my target market for my game is mostly for casual players and gamers - just as TechnoGoth said. Thanks!

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    I don't ask that question for a generic hardcore/casual gamer answer...Nor to take the topic down some irrelevant path of hunting game comparision..."Dateing sims" are already an established genre in the East, with some shown intrest here in the west. Certainly you have done some research into the issue.

    So I ask again?

    What is the target market for "Dateing sims"? Who buys them? What is thier age range? What do they say makes them interested in the genre?

    Are they middle age guys who play them out of nestalgia for thier youthfull single days?

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    Quote:
    Original post by MSW
    What is the target market for "Dateing sims"? Who buys them? What is thier age range? What do they say makes them interested in the genre?

    Are they middle age guys who play them out of nestalgia for thier youthfull single days?


    The target market is pretty much single 17+ males. What makes them interested in the genre is that it gives them a feeling of being wanted by multiple members opposite sex plus the thrill of the hunt for the girl that you want without fear of rejection or embarassment - after all if it doesn't work they can just reload a previous savestate and keep trying.

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    Take some notes from the best "dating sim" ever, leisure suit larry magna cum lada! :)

    For those who havent played the game yet, there are SEVERAL types of mini games necessary to "woo" the chick into submission. The coolest of all was the "talking" that you see in every dating sim of the planet though. A good "conversation engine" is most important of course. But just dont count of memorization like they do on simgirl or genguru girls.

    In LSL during a conversation you would navigate a sperm through a "tunnel" of sorts, while larry spoke. There was an interest meter at the side that gauged her interested level. Several types of objects would get in the way of the sperm, some generic, such as farts or belches, some rather humerous things that would lead the conversation in another direction, etc.

    This was EXTREEMLY addicting, I cant say how many times I would play the same converation over and over again just to see how many different stupid conversations I could get larry to have.

    A conversation engine like this would be MUCH more fitting then the model used in SimGIRL or GG. Frankly as pointed out before, when a girls in her panties laying on her bed, shes not going to routeenly ask you how tall you think she is, her breast size, or how many times shes been to the "love hotel". if this is the case you have been with some freaking weird girls. With guys, noone really cares about facts to begin with, so for a girl it would be all about "flirting" in the right kinda way.

    In fact, I think the guys might perfer if you not remember that they are only 4 inches, that they have breasts bigger then yours, or that they are still a virgin.

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    Quote:
    Original post by Mayan Obsidian
    Quote:
    Original post by MSW
    What is the target market for "Dateing sims"? Who buys them? What is thier age range? What do they say makes them interested in the genre?

    Are they middle age guys who play them out of nestalgia for thier youthfull single days?


    The target market is pretty much single 17+ males. What makes them interested in the genre is that it gives them a feeling of being wanted by multiple members opposite sex plus the thrill of the hunt for the girl that you want without fear of rejection or embarassment - after all if it doesn't work they can just reload a previous savestate and keep trying.



    I see, so its the fantasy of it all...without the supposed "risk", or even potential "rewards" of actual real world dateing. I can't relate, but its interesting.

    Most guys are simply clueless when it comes to flirting. But once you truely figure it out, its like you discovered some magical language women are almost powerless against...at that point fear of rejection and/or embarassment are so irrelevant simply because every female you encounter is just another excuse to practice flirting...And, NO, flirting is not "hitting" on women, or laying complements on a girl like there is no tomorrow...its much more subtle and powerfull then that, its not exactly what you say, but how you say it.

    But putting flirting in a dateing sim would be a little problimatic, I'd think. but more power to ya if you did a flirting sim.


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