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FPS and jumping

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I started this thread to see your opinion on jumping in FPS games. I have to say I am a good FPS player. I have played almost all dooms (except 3), all quakes, unreal tournaments and other. However, I always hated players who overjumped - that is spend 90% of the game time in midair. I rarely jump without reason and usually dodge attacks on the ground. I find it more relaxing (since I dont have to press spacebar over and over and over and over ...), I can plan my actions better (find escape routes, tactical positions etc) and I can see the other players better (since that is a problem while jumping). What's your opinion ?

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Jumpig is just a valid strategy as hiding and walking low. A lot of people hate jumpers, because they actually have to do some working. You don't play a FPS to relax, go find yourself a RTS instead.
I like to jump, when I'm close atleast. I can jump over people, and quicly turn around, while they try to figure out where I went. I also usually start pressing space a lot when I'm being fired at, this way it makes it that one bit harder for people to hit me.
But no, then I'm a bunnyjumper or something like that.
They don't take int oconsideration that while I'm jumping(At least on almost every game) the aiming becose much worse, in the end, its a valid strategy.
I have strategies against it, learn to aim, and if you see someone jump close to you, try to start fire right behind you, they usually land there.
When people fall down, you know exactly where they will land, its hard to evade fire mid-air, use that.

Theres always something in a FPS game that some will hate, while others take use of and learn to use well, it can't be avoided. Trying to design a game oterwise, will not make it better. You'd have to make a game with only ONE weapon, no jumping, no walking low, no aiming. Hell, while youre at it, take away all forms of health and armour refilling.
NOW you might not get complainers... oh...wait.... can't that other guy aim BETTER THAN ME? OMG?

Those that hate something(Like bunnyjumping, certain weapons) do that just because they can't use it themselves.
Those wh osay everyone better is a cheater, is jut because they themselve is'nt as good.

So, how do you guys want to work around this?

Glitching on the other hand is something that it's allowed to complain about(I hate those FPS games where people hide inside walls)

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People also whine about players bunnyhopping on Counterstrike: Source. These people get on my man-tits mainly because they don't like being beaten.

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No, the reason I hate hoppers is not because I get beaten (and I do ... I'm not a guru, nor an averege player; somewhere in between) but because it spoils the game.

Imagine a hardcore battle, your team (or you alone) facing three enemies, running, hiding behind obstacles, dodging rockets, bullets and whatever you like. Pretty cool, huh ?
Now the same scene with everybody jumping around like a bunch of retards, thinking that they can't get hit if they jump. Spoils the image right? Makes the scene look like all the players are on crack.

Remember DOOM? You couldn't really jump in doom (you could fall however) even if it could have been implemented by the developers. People still deathmatched back then, didn't they?

I really loved the way bunny hopping was taken out of counter strike (version 1.4 i think). Didn't that give something special to the game? Didn't that make it more tactical and less jump/shoot/jump/die?

What i'm saying is that jumping is good if it has a point (shortcuting some stairs, rocket jumping to inaccesible/secret areas, dodging a grenade etc). I can shoot a hopper the same way I shoot any player. It just looks awful.

PS: BTW, how many of you hoppers :) also jump like that in singleplayer?

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You also have to consider that in some games, Unreal Tournament series is the ideal example, the jumping is one of the most important strategies to use.
To elaborate, in Unreal Tournament there's the double-jump, dodge, dodge-jump and wall-jump. All of these are very important to use since the not only lets you access some areas faster (or at all, even) but can also be used to make one very hard to hit.
I think it has all to do which game it is and in which setting. Unreal Tournament is a futuristic game where they've made it fit just right. Counter Strike on the other hand is one example where jumping doesn't fit in and is also discouraged (except for the bunnyjumping, jumping like a rabbit on crack when shooting seldom works).
Do I jump in singleplayer FPS ? Depends. Jumping do dodge enemy fire isn't as effective against bots as it is against humans then it's more to avoid slow moving projectiles and explosions. Unreal Tournament, definitely. RTC Wolfenstein, no.
Removing jumping from FPS games would be weird. Kinda like removing jumping from Super Mario.

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I think removing unrealistic jumps would make games visually better but less fun to play. There are very few cases where I'd make such exchange.


[Edited: Removed stupid sarcasm]

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A lot of it probably dates back to the Quake 1 DM days, people quickly learnt to aim rockets at the ground so even if you miss people you get them with splash damage, jumping was a way to mitigate that somewhat, if you did jump from splash damage it also sent you flying up in the air giving you chance to fire down on your opponent but making it hard for them to hit you above them.

I still jump a lot out of habit, in the days of headshots in just about every FPS game it helps if your head is moving about on all 3 axis, and not just one/two, to make you a much harder kill.

Different games do different things, look at Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, no jumping at all to maintain realism (trust me, you wont jump at all armed to the hilt with heavy kit in a real war), compared to a fast action shooter like the UT games and suddenly it doesn't matter if you're jumping about, it's part the game - futuristic super-fit, super-human athlete-warriors running round with guns almost.

If you take it further and look at games like Crackdown, you'll see that they realised suitable jumping is something that's actually very important to gameplay and made it a central part of the game.

The answer on whether or not to remove or dampen the effect of jumping therefore depends entirely on the game. Futuristic shooter? I'd stick some slightly over the top jumping in personally, realistic simulation? I'd do as GRAW and have no, or very very low jumping. There's no magic bullet, or no "correct" way to do jumping.

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I think one of the most important strategies of game design is noticing the sharp hooks that come along with potential features you want to add to your project. It's important because it's so easy to overlook them. I think it can be summed up in one simple sentence: If a feature presents a decent advantage that can be gained by doing something tedious, then don't add it. A crude example is looting crappy items from dead bodies. Something that you can do to become rich, but something that no one wants to do.

FPS jumping is not something I personally have a problem with. But I can easily imagine a FPS being designed in such a way that jumping isn't necessary - isn't even desired as a strategic maneuver. I've played several very good shooters that don't even have a jump button.

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I like games with a stamina bar where it takes stamina to jump. That makes it more of a strategy. Also slower paced FPS games don't have as much jumping. Another way, and one of the best ways, I know of is to make aiming a probability with a cone of fire. When you jump, just spike the cone of fire really high. You might dodge a bullet but letting the cone of fire lower might be a huge disadvantage overall.

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I agree with Xest, it's entirely dependent on the game.

I personally find jumping fun in a lot of games, where it can get me extra speed (Half-Life 2 for example), or allow me to make moves that make me feel empowered. An example of the latter could be jump-maps in Counter-Strike, where the entire object of the game is to jump.

You can also look at platformers, and what an important role jumping plays in those games. It's really entirely dependent on the game. What can detract from the enjoyment is a game where jumping around like a madman breaks immersion, or gives an unreasonable advantage to those who do it, when it's not a part of the game's intended gameplay.

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