I've been reading this and have been trying to think about this for a long time. I like the idea of gaining HP at a slow rate with a max around 3 to 4 times as many HP as you start out with. Take Average Joe, versus UFC champion. He can take a lot more punches then I can.

I've never understood though how a person with no armor could take multiple slashes from a heavy axe and survive? I realize that realism can ultimately ruin "fun" but armor and magic can play a huge roll. Money in a game could be a form of leveling, as you progress through the ranks you get more notoriety, find bigger people to work for and gain more money, giving you more resources to buy that magic armor that protects you from Arrows, magic, and the like. I personally don't care if someone level 1 has a friend that is level 100000 that hooks him up with anything and everything. I realize this brings a certain level of unbalance. But make it so that character would have to be seriously babysat. If you die you have to get all your stuff back, or magic upgrades would need to be used constantly in order for that newbie with all the nice armor to move fast enough in that clunky stuff in order to fight anything, or AI smart enough to disarm or damage armor if it is obvious the player doesn't know what he is doing.

My idea of a game would be using the Wii controllers, if not next gen of that, there an actual players ability of sword play and magic gestures or aim with an arrow could have the biggest factor of tactics. Some level of physics and collision detection would be involved, perhaps making it unrealistic for MMORPGs. But I think a human fighting a giant boar would take more than just a well equiped level 1. You need to be able to dodge, attack, defend. Just hitting "use attack 1" button over and over seems mindless to me, plus scripts can be implemented too easily. Plus I liked how in PnP D&D if you killed say eight things, that meant you could be leveling up if you had enough skill, luck, and the right circumstances to survive. This would make tactics and group tactics essenstial. Say someone has good enough armor to take on that green giant. Sure he can take a hit but thats about all he can do while being bashed around aimlessly. He would have to play physical blocker for all the guys shooting arrows and magic at him. I think physics are key. If you put a body or a tree or something between you and the enemy, they shouldn't be able to get to you unless they physically can shoot past you. Think end level flying dragons. They would be able to pick people off because they would have the defense to take beating, but also could pick off the people in the back instead of being pinned up by the tank.

Ok I'm ranting but I think there is a lot more that could be done instead of just leveling. I think the system needs to be completey reworked.

Quote:Original post by Dwiff
I've been reading this and have been trying to think about this for a long time. I like the idea of gaining HP at a slow rate with a max around 3 to 4 times as many HP as you start out with. Take Average Joe, versus UFC champion. He can take a lot more punches then I can.

I've never understood though how a person with no armor could take multiple slashes from a heavy axe and survive? I realize that realism can ultimately ruin "fun" but armor and magic can play a huge roll.

...

Think end level flying dragons. They would be able to pick people off because they would have the defense to take beating, but also could pick off the people in the back instead of being pinned up by the tank.

Ok I'm ranting but I think there is a lot more that could be done instead of just leveling. I think the system needs to be completey reworked.

Ok so i'm in good shape so i figured maybe UFC fighters aren't 4 times as tough as me. I figure a squire in training would at least be able to take a few hits....lol. The fact is that a person with no armor CAN'T take multiple hits from a heavy axe....unless he's not a person, or maybe he's magically enhanced. The realm of magic(especially magic armors) permits anything so the "fun" isn't ruined by realistic hitpoints. Perhaps you have a ring that puts a barrier over your top layer of skin, stopping all piercing and stabbing, only allowing pressure and blunt trauma....infinite possiblities.

Also, in regard to dragons, you had better have some magic stuff on...No matter how skilled you are, your kinda screwed.

Quote:Original post by CalculonsProcessor
Ok so i'm in good shape so i figured maybe UFC fighters aren't 4 times as tough as me. I figure a squire in training would at least be able to take a few hits....lol. The fact is that a person with no armor CAN'T take multiple hits from a heavy axe....unless he's not a person, or maybe he's magically enhanced. The realm of magic(especially magic armors) permits anything so the "fun" isn't ruined by realistic hitpoints. Perhaps you have a ring that puts a barrier over your top layer of skin, stopping all piercing and stabbing, only allowing pressure and blunt trauma....infinite possiblities.

Also, in regard to dragons, you had better have some magic stuff on...No matter how skilled you are, your kinda screwed.

Right we are all at different levels, and that might make the difference of starting professions and where a person starts out in hit points and such. I wouldn't expect to take a dragon or even a better equiped human without magic, I think that is essential. I'm just saying its a combination of things, players skill, characters skills and attributes, equipment, and the like. These are all factors present in current games, but I think a shift needs to be made more towards player skills. Right now you have games like WoW, where eq and level makes a character. Games like SWG (pre-giagantic nerf) where items (foods, drinks, and quality level of those and equipment) were the biggest factor. I haven't played everything out there, but I think a players skill such as like in a FPS game are important. The ability to aim your bow or magic arrow at the hole in an enemies armor while physically dodging projectiles and attacks.

Another idea I had was a way to increase HP or toughness. Toughness could increase by damage taken. Instead of HP going up because you hit level whatever your HP goes up because you have been beaten half to death a thousand times, managed to survive each time, and kept going. SWG did something like this where a fighter wouldn't get as much XP if a healer just sat there keeping him at full strength the whole time, instead the healer got the bulk of the XP (and rightfully). And if you die and need resurrected or spirit healed or what have you then when die you lose that HP bonus as level, or a portion. So if your a level 1 fighter wearing the latest and greateset armor and just hacked and slashed your way through enemies you wouldn't get the benifets of struggling your way through by not getting the HP bonus. Also if you beat down a ogre with a stick, and survive you would get stronger one would thing, at least stronger then using that +1000 sword of might that your friend gave you that kills everything in one it. I think this would give the game some balance. Enemies would need to be strong enought to actually kill you if you just tried farming using a stick, or if they realize they can't damage you, because of your ring of invulernability, they could run away or something preventing macro farmers. Just ideas.

Dwiff, you could add requirements for the godly weapons; or depending on the story, you might disallow trading godly items to people in the beginning. If you don't want to do levels, perhaps you might have to defeat a certain boss before you're allowed to use such a holy treasure of a weapon. You must prove yourself not to be a noob before you can wield the sword of a thousand truths.

I understand the idea of levels for weapons. I think for standard, non-magical, weapons it makes no sense to have such limitations. If Joe picks up a bastard sword and Mike picks up a bastard sword but joe is level 5 and Mike is level 1 the only difference I see is physical attributes and skill. Magic weapons on the other hand you might need to beat that boss, earn the mark of the Elves or something to be able to use the Dagger of the Elves. This makes sense to me because well we can't explain magic. But then a character just goes around earning these marks/certifications what have you. I just think there is more innovative ways a person could be limited than just levels. Originally they were talking about in this post the mundaness that comes with standard RPGs, the fact that your playing a role of a character and this is your story. Levels are used to indicate a sense of advancement, and standard use of measurement of a characters ability. My friends used to even create characters based on themselves using D&D tables (needless to say the "average" person is very lacking when it comes to D&D). IRL what seperates average white belt Joe from black belt third degree Joe? Physical skill, Black belt joe isn't nessecarily a lot stronger or can take a staff to the head better than white belt Joe, but he will be much better at dodging, countering, attack speed, ability to wield different weapons with a level of proficiency and the like. Now how do we translate that into Game speak? Characters get faster, have more of a variety of skills to counteract different scenarios, know more people and places to get a better variety of things, have accumilated more wealth, have friends that are equally better equiped and highly skilled. This makes a lot more sense to me then level 1 and level 60, were level 1 will hit for 50 and level 60 for 6000.