advice for a beginner?
ive downloaded python, im currently going through their beginners sections, following an introduction they have right now, hopefully i can make some decent progress in the next few months. Im thinking of learning as much about programming as i can to see if its something i could take seriously in college.
If you want to learn basic language programming, here are my suggestion:
- Visual Basic.Net.
- Delphi.
- Python.
Not in order or anything. Those are great languages and you can get results in a very few time.
Another one and powerful language to develop games is Fenix, is free and open source. Take a look here:
http://fenix.divsite.net/index.php?opcion=1〈=en
And of course, learning C/C++ is also a very good option, a little more harder to learn but one of the best languages for game development in my opinion.
Here is an excellent tutorial with C/C++ and DirectX:
http://www.directxtutorial.com/Tutorial9/tutorials.aspx
Good luck.
- Visual Basic.Net.
- Delphi.
- Python.
Not in order or anything. Those are great languages and you can get results in a very few time.
Another one and powerful language to develop games is Fenix, is free and open source. Take a look here:
http://fenix.divsite.net/index.php?opcion=1〈=en
And of course, learning C/C++ is also a very good option, a little more harder to learn but one of the best languages for game development in my opinion.
Here is an excellent tutorial with C/C++ and DirectX:
http://www.directxtutorial.com/Tutorial9/tutorials.aspx
Good luck.
well i kind of disagree with most of you guy's .
I am in the same position ..
I am filling the position of a creative director/designer in our open source group Ättic Evolved"
Basically i started out on my own making NWN2 modules and when more people came along we wanted to give Open source a shot . Now we have talented people that can make great artwork (we just lack the programmers )
I designed the world and setting and write the stories/scripts and dialog's and through pictures and flowcharts i give people the plan on how the game should work which fighting system to use skill structure and everything ..
I know the very very basics of programming.. "what can be done and maybe a little how" i just can't craft it into a syntax because i lack the C/C++ experience and skill .
So i draw up the system in graphs flowcharts and calculations that need to be made by the engine in order to work .. This way you don't need any programming skills just be able to explain your idea's into a good concept.
And later when programmers have made the system you have drawn up test it and work together to make slight adjustments ..
Maybe this way of working sounds a bit different than the professional approach , but works none the less .
Too bad our project has only 2 half active programmers who can make the system... so we need lots more . but even if you cannot code,model,skin. you can still create the designs for a game and give it creative input from which everyone on the team can work .
(you don't think peter jackson made his own clay characters in the Studio's for concept did you? while working on LOTR)
I am in the same position ..
I am filling the position of a creative director/designer in our open source group Ättic Evolved"
Basically i started out on my own making NWN2 modules and when more people came along we wanted to give Open source a shot . Now we have talented people that can make great artwork (we just lack the programmers )
I designed the world and setting and write the stories/scripts and dialog's and through pictures and flowcharts i give people the plan on how the game should work which fighting system to use skill structure and everything ..
I know the very very basics of programming.. "what can be done and maybe a little how" i just can't craft it into a syntax because i lack the C/C++ experience and skill .
So i draw up the system in graphs flowcharts and calculations that need to be made by the engine in order to work .. This way you don't need any programming skills just be able to explain your idea's into a good concept.
And later when programmers have made the system you have drawn up test it and work together to make slight adjustments ..
Maybe this way of working sounds a bit different than the professional approach , but works none the less .
Too bad our project has only 2 half active programmers who can make the system... so we need lots more . but even if you cannot code,model,skin. you can still create the designs for a game and give it creative input from which everyone on the team can work .
(you don't think peter jackson made his own clay characters in the Studio's for concept did you? while working on LOTR)
Quote:Original post by razoorsharp
(you don't think peter jackson made his own clay characters in the Studio's for concept did you? while working on LOTR)
LOTR was his ninth production, roughly. In his first well-known production, he did the production, direction, editing, cinematography/camera-work, makeup, and special effects. Plus a little acting.
In other words, don't expect to have a team doing everything for you if it's your first production. Learn some practical skills and actually do some work.
Quote:Original post by KylotanQuote:Original post by razoorsharp
(you don't think peter jackson made his own clay characters in the Studio's for concept did you? while working on LOTR)
LOTR was his ninth production, roughly. In his first well-known production, he did the production, direction, editing, cinematography/camera-work, makeup, and special effects. Plus a little acting.
In other words, don't expect to have a team doing everything for you if it's your first production. Learn some practical skills and actually do some work.
Yes in the beginning you do the work but not all of it. not all of us have the time/resource to go back to collage.. (in my case a family that requires an income)to have a 4 year full time education in programming.
Whats wrong with contributing the entire story and writing the quests dialog's and tweaking the system with the help of programmers.. although i can't do it myself i can however work together with people who can, to fine tune it .
If they work with me they are definably now doing all the work themselves.. I still need to create every story dialog etc etc Quest.
The slight difference is that the things i make can be used in Pen&Paper roleplay games but i need someone else who digitalizes it . So you both work hard on it .
I find it a bit odd that some people think you will need every kind of skill to make a game in order to design it . That is not true in my book, you can still make the concepts and work together with the programmers and do other stuff like dialog's Quests designing skill systems and everything. The programmer just puts it into code what you already did on paper .
If the programmer who wants to work with you likes the system you put on paper he won't mind helping you to put it into code with you . or thats how i see it .
However.... I am going to do a speed course in October 3dsMax modeling + animation so who knows i am able to contribute more than.. but without programmers.. hell no .. My project will be stuck at Design phase for a while longer
You can't expect someone to create the game totally on his own. at least not in the magnitude we are planning . oke some simple java games and 2d games or mod's can be done ... but not a professional looking game that needs a good mechanism for fighting quests and progression and such .
I think some underestimate the work that goes in to writing dialog's and the entire world and setting in which the game is set.
Maybe this is a small consolation, i do make the quests that need to be put in the game in NWN2 so the programmers know how is construction is .
If we get through the phase where the D3D engine works and i can import stuff in it in an easy way by a toolset and get to script the thing .. than i do know enough about programming to make it .
It's just the engine part i cannot do. and not even a course in C/C++ wil teach you how to code an engine ground up or code Direct3d. It's very specialized or so i view it..
If the engine is done in a waty i can code things in a way you code things like in the Aurora toolset (NwScript , C++ based) than i can also code but before that.. naah)
(Sorry if my post seems a bit chaotic... I am at work and had to write the post in 20 parts in a rush )
++Add to last post .
i just find it a bit degrading some people say he should forget about getting help from anyone just because he doesn't know the technical parts, like the syntax to use for certain actions, but maybe his idea's for a game are very well constructed in concept.
If the concepts are very good why not join him ad help him out? if you like what he presents in the concept?
i just find it a bit degrading some people say he should forget about getting help from anyone just because he doesn't know the technical parts, like the syntax to use for certain actions, but maybe his idea's for a game are very well constructed in concept.
If the concepts are very good why not join him ad help him out? if you like what he presents in the concept?
Quote:
i just find it a bit degrading some people say he should forget about getting help from anyone just because he doesn't know the technical parts
It has nothing to do with "knowing the technical parts" or not; it has everything to do with having a useful skill. I'm going to comment in general, here, and not about the OP in particular, so please don't take offense.
There is an unbelievably large number of people who simply have some vague conception of an "idea" but no useful skills to bring to a team. An idea is not a skill. Most of these people think that it is, however, and furthermore that it is a skill that gives them the ability to direct a team of developers in the production of their concept. Except, again, it's not. An idea is just an idea. While it might be degrading to tell somebody they won't get help without being able to bring a skill to the team, it's equally degrading for somebody to assume that competent programmers and artists should work with them, when all they're going to contribute to the effort is a single one-shot concept, usually accompanied by some bossiness and arrogance (by assumption of the role of "team leader").
Quote:
but maybe his idea's for a game are very well constructed in concept.
If the concepts are very good why not join him ad help him out? if you like what he presents in the concept?
Maybe they are, but we all have ideas and pet projects we want to pursue. And most of us are completely unwilling to "work" for somebody with just an idea -- we're doing all the grunt work, they're giving the orders and reaping the "benefits" (assuming anything ever comes of the project, which, more often than not, never happens).
Competent programmers and artists realize a few things. First, that leading a team of programmers and artists usually requires you to know something about either or both disciplines; failure to understand the domain concepts involved means you cannot really adequately plan or direct your team members. There's a reason why programmer and art leads are not college graduates, after all. They also realize that things like the overall grand game design or the plot or backstory are all pretty irrelevant during the bootstrap phase of a project. They might provide a nice bit of flavor, but they don't actually help get the core tech and assets up and running. There's a reason why all but the largest professional game studios do not keep writers on permanent staff. They also know that most people who think they have ideas for games really have ideas for stories, which are particularly useless until the later stages of development -- if at all. It all adds up to, basically, doing work for free for somebody else who isn't putting in any reasonable effort. And if you're going to work for free, why do it under somebody elses yoke, instead of working on your own project? Consequently, statistically speaking the majority of people who just have ideas will never get a team until they get a useful skillset to bring to the table.
Hello!
Actually meant to post a few days ago, but I had some account issues. I wanted to say something about the dream job being pitched for.
A few people have said this doesn't exist. I would just say that really it is a combination of two roles that you are looking at...and typically this combination doesn't exist because a person in either of these two roles has moved on from the other.
From what I can tell, you want to 'write' in order to 'design and direct' a game. With this in mind, the two roles that spring to mind are Writer and Producer (or very Sr Game Designer), with Producer being the Creative type as opposed to the Project Manager type.
Now usually Writers are not game designers or producers, but I do know of many Producers that are Writers and very good at it and indeed they will write out the plot or storyline and then focus on directing the implementation of that story through other designers and ultimately a team. This is really where writing becomes a small part of directing a team though.
If you want to write, don't be discouraged - just write. You don't need to be a professional to do that. I would focus on writing good storys that could be turned into games and then consider how you might go about breaking such a story down into the equivalent of a screenplay. Such a thing, is often part of a good GDD document and they may play a key role in demonstrating why someone should employ you later on.
Are there jobs for writers? Yes, but not every team or even company has them. Why? As an extreme example consider why Space Invaders wouldn't need a writer. Many games are either simple or formulaic and don't need a story. However, some of the formulaic games may still need a screenplay. The companies you might look to for employment as a writer would be those doing very epic, story based games. I know of a team that has two writers, who know nothing about game development. It works well for them.
If you are looking to direct a team, even if you still want to write then start out in QA and get more familiar with games, analysing games and the industry in general. Then look to jump to an Assistant Producer role about 18 months later. In the mean time, do the QA job well and keep writing and designer. Many producers take the QA route and if you did, you might be looking at that dream job of both directing and writing, with writing really being a key skill you have that helps you to define part of a games actual design. There are many other elements, but you would learn those as you go through the producer ranks.
Do you need to know programming, art, etc? No. I know many producers that know nothing in these areas. I would personally put that python stuff aside. Again, you will learn what you need to know through the ranks. Learning a little won't do any harm, but I would say that mostly you need to understand the constraints of a given gaming platform (so that you can design within it) and 'what good or quality looks or feels like'?
Another point...many people in production roles have degrees unrelated to computer science and more related to creativity.
Good luck.
Actually meant to post a few days ago, but I had some account issues. I wanted to say something about the dream job being pitched for.
A few people have said this doesn't exist. I would just say that really it is a combination of two roles that you are looking at...and typically this combination doesn't exist because a person in either of these two roles has moved on from the other.
From what I can tell, you want to 'write' in order to 'design and direct' a game. With this in mind, the two roles that spring to mind are Writer and Producer (or very Sr Game Designer), with Producer being the Creative type as opposed to the Project Manager type.
Now usually Writers are not game designers or producers, but I do know of many Producers that are Writers and very good at it and indeed they will write out the plot or storyline and then focus on directing the implementation of that story through other designers and ultimately a team. This is really where writing becomes a small part of directing a team though.
If you want to write, don't be discouraged - just write. You don't need to be a professional to do that. I would focus on writing good storys that could be turned into games and then consider how you might go about breaking such a story down into the equivalent of a screenplay. Such a thing, is often part of a good GDD document and they may play a key role in demonstrating why someone should employ you later on.
Are there jobs for writers? Yes, but not every team or even company has them. Why? As an extreme example consider why Space Invaders wouldn't need a writer. Many games are either simple or formulaic and don't need a story. However, some of the formulaic games may still need a screenplay. The companies you might look to for employment as a writer would be those doing very epic, story based games. I know of a team that has two writers, who know nothing about game development. It works well for them.
If you are looking to direct a team, even if you still want to write then start out in QA and get more familiar with games, analysing games and the industry in general. Then look to jump to an Assistant Producer role about 18 months later. In the mean time, do the QA job well and keep writing and designer. Many producers take the QA route and if you did, you might be looking at that dream job of both directing and writing, with writing really being a key skill you have that helps you to define part of a games actual design. There are many other elements, but you would learn those as you go through the producer ranks.
Do you need to know programming, art, etc? No. I know many producers that know nothing in these areas. I would personally put that python stuff aside. Again, you will learn what you need to know through the ranks. Learning a little won't do any harm, but I would say that mostly you need to understand the constraints of a given gaming platform (so that you can design within it) and 'what good or quality looks or feels like'?
Another point...many people in production roles have degrees unrelated to computer science and more related to creativity.
Good luck.
thanks freak, im in a tough spot with QA aswell, the only game studio where i live is Silicon Knights, ive emailed them about a job in QA, they sent me an automated email back saying they'll get in touch if im needed.
Im trying to learn programming, im having a tough time getting interested in it, is there a list of all the jobs that make up a game development team? i have a little bit of experience with photoshop and ive also done some tutorials in wings3d and found that to be pretty fun but the tutorials dried up and there wasnt much documentation for beginners so it got next to impossible to learn anything from it.
Im trying to learn programming, im having a tough time getting interested in it, is there a list of all the jobs that make up a game development team? i have a little bit of experience with photoshop and ive also done some tutorials in wings3d and found that to be pretty fun but the tutorials dried up and there wasnt much documentation for beginners so it got next to impossible to learn anything from it.
Quote:Original post by OzzyStar
i cant learn something im not interested in, i guess this option is dead, thanks for the answers
LOL. Well you won't survive too long in the real world and you'll be living at your mommy's house for life.
Now, to your issue.
There's nothing wrong with you being the designer and assembling programmers, artists, modelers, and musicians to bring your game to life. Question is are you going to do your part? Are you going to write the game design, story, gameplay, and game mechanics BEFORE you try to assemble a team. Are you going to learn enough about the positions you "hiring" for, so that you don't end up asking for things that are completely unrealistic? Are you going present a goal that can be realistically achieved and allow your team to provide input those decisions? Can you be a contributor and not just a wanna-be manager?
Those are things that anyone, regardless of position, should ask themselves before asking to assemble a team to make a game (or anything else for that matter).
This topic is closed to new replies.
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