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Storm_WHM

Making GBA 2D Game,, Where to start???

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My team is making a game for Playstation2 and we need to know some basics.. Like what programs work best with playstation2.. My programmer knows C++, SDL he is beginner in OpenGL.. What kind of programs should we get into to start making this game to allow it to be used on playstation2 console? [Edited by - Storm_WHM on June 1, 2007 7:43:13 AM]

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a) your game will NOT WORK with OGL.
b) you're gonna have to scour the Internet for some homebrew solution to your issue.
c) if professional programmers, complained and gnashed teeth over how hard it is to program for the PS2, then knowing the basics won't help you much.
d) I'd try programming for the Dreamcast, GBA, or GP32 (especially). Much easier.
e) Good luck.

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If you go the Linux on ps2 route SDL_image, SDL_ttf and SDL_mixer are all available. I am not sure about the main SDL libraries I have seen a lot of old forum post about people porting them to the ps2.

good luck with your project
the homebrew PS2 tools are not the easiest to work with.

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What about PSP handheld.. What sort of programs should we use if we decide to go this route? Would it be easier to create a 2d isometric rpg on this console. (probably) and thank you guys for your help as well.

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Original post by Storm_WHM
What about PSP handheld.. What sort of programs should we use if we decide to go this route? Would it be easier to create a 2d isometric rpg on this console. (probably) and thank you guys for your help as well.


Read my 1st post. Same thing applies.

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It'll be hard on both platforms, because to get it to run on unmodified consoles you have to get Sony's approval and pay them a load of money for licensing.

Check out this page on console development to see more about development for game consoles.

If you're just learning how to write games, then this is not the place for you. Build your game on PC.

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Original post by Storm_WHM
What about PSP handheld.. What sort of programs should we use if we decide to go this route? Would it be easier to create a 2d isometric rpg on this console. (probably) and thank you guys for your help as well.

PSP's probably more do-able. devkitpro has toolchains for the PSP, but no documentation for them that I've ever seen. There's probably some PSP homebrew sites out there if you take a look.

Granted, if you're just now learning SDL/OpenGL, then that indicates that you don't have nearly the experience which will be required to get along nicely with the tools. If devkitPSP is anything like devkitNDS, then you'll be working with a GCC cross-compiler and a bunch of practically undocumented libraries of various quality, in addition to direct interaction with the hardware via memory-mapped registers.

It's messy as fuck, and that's after you get everything set up properly. This applies for development on not only any console, but I would extend the assertion to any non-native platform.

But whatever.

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The one console I have had the easiest time using with SDL is the Nintendo DS with devkitpro. Most of the SDL libs have been ported and the compiler and tool set are easy setup and use. The DreamCast probably has the most support for SDL and Opengl thanks to DreamCast SDL lib but setting the compiler is difficult to setup and use.

[Edited by - blackcloak on May 31, 2007 4:20:41 PM]

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OK... GBA you say... Damn theres so much to take in account when making a game.. Liscenses and multi programs.. and console capabilities... So Does anyone have any additional information of making game with GBA??

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Original post by Storm_WHM
OK... GBA you say... Damn theres so much to take in account when making a game.. Liscenses and multi programs.. and console capabilities... So Does anyone have any additional information of making game with GBA??

Unless they ported SDL to the GBA, you are going to have problems programming for it. Programming on the GBA means programming close to the hardware, you will be doing operations on register values, bitwise operations, using tools to convert graphics, etc. Not exactly the best choice for the beginner (despite being lots of fun :) ).

On the filpside, GBA programs are easy to test using an emulator or a flash cart and there are some decent debugging tools as well. The GBA is very well documented as well.

This is a good site for GBA and DS information
One of the best tutorials for the GBA

PSP, DC, NDS and GP2X are probably the easiest to program on given your past experience using SDL and OpenGL.

PSP: Either you have a modded PSP with custom firmware or you already have PSP that is capable of running unsigned applications. Compiler is reasonably simple to install and the SDK has full doxygen markup.
Dreamcast: The compiler is the hardest to setup and unless you have the developers cable, you need to burn your programs on disc for testing.
NDS: The compiler is really easy to setup. You can probably use an emulator to test else you need to get a flash cart like the M3 Simply or the R4.
GP2X: Compiler is easy to setup and supports the SDL libraries nicely. Runs on a Linux kernel so it is simple to get things going.

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Original post by Storm_WHM
oh.. I don't program... my programmer knows C/C++, SDL and is only learning OpenGL..

Well, get him/her on here so we can talk to him/her directly. It be much quicker and better for him/her to see what the options are.

Also, what is your final goal? What are you aiming for here?

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In all truth I want to aim for retail if all possible.. I know theres a big chance to fail. I am having hard time searching for webpages on liscencing. I want to make a 2d rpg Isometric style. But even having a game on cartrage that isnt mass produced is good too.. and good on a portfolio.. since I'm an artist might be a really nice way to show my art skills.

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Damn theres so much to take in account when making a game.. Liscenses and multi programs.. and console capabilities...

It's usually better for hobby teams to develop for the PC, where none of that is a problem. Of course, the PC comes with its own problems... but they're easier for hobby developers to deal with or flat out avoid. If you intend to go anywhere with the game, prototyping via homebrew can be pretty hit-or-miss (hard to demo the game, hard to convince some people to even look at it); you're better off prototyping on the PC.

It is highly unlikely you will get a license as a hobby developer. They look for established developers, or those with experience... basically, they want real companies with real offices and real programmers who have shipped real games. That's why it's best to start out on the PC. Take a look at the licensing requirements on Wario World, Nintendo's developer site, to see what I mean.

Oh, there's also XNA, which allows you access to the PC and the 360 (without the homebrew stigma). I don't think anybody's mentioned it yet, so it's worth throwing out there since you're exploring options.

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Original post by Storm_WHM
In all truth I want to aim for retail if all possible.. I know theres a big chance to fail. I am having hard time searching for webpages on liscencing. I want to make a 2d rpg Isometric style. But even having a game on cartrage that isnt mass produced is good too.. and good on a portfolio.. since I'm an artist might be a really nice way to show my art skills.

Nintendo's Developers Portal
READ: Solperama Games Biz FAQ

In short, not going to happen given the way you have presented yourself here. The best bet is to either go down the Live Arcade root with XNA (still difficult) or develop and release on the PC download either for free or via publisher/self publish (much easier).

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Original post by yaustar
In short, not going to happen given the way you have presented yourself here.


Not to be mean.. but thats kind of rude. I know many people fail in making games and the chance of getting them out there is slim to none. But this is a beginner forum.. and I'm trying to find as much information and help as possible so I do succeed.. and posting things like this is just like saying give up and don't waste your time.

But when it comes down to actually making the game of coarse I will be more professional like but right now I just need as much information and help on the project as I can get... And I do thank you all for giving me a lot of useful information and positive guidance.

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Original post by Storm_WHM
Not to be mean.. but thats kind of rude. I know many people fail in making games and the chance of getting them out there is slim to none. But This is a beginner forum.. and I'm trying to find as much information and help as possible so I do succeed.. and posting things like this is just like saying give up and don't waste your time.

Unfortunately, that is the state of the games industry. The chances of making it to physical distribution, especially proprietary formats (cartridge, UMDs) means you ideally need the backing of a publisher. Unless you really have a damn good game (for a startup) or previous track record, the chances of this happening are stupidly slim (read Sloperama's FAQ I linked) hence why I said that digital distribution on the PC or Live Arcade has a much bigger chance of succeeding.

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Not to be mean.. but thats kind of rude. I know many people fail in making games and the chance of getting them out there is slim to none. But this is a beginner forum.. and I'm trying to find as much information and help as possible so I do succeed.. and posting things like this is just like saying give up and don't waste your time.

But when it comes down to actually making the game of coarse I will be more professional like but right now I just need as much information and help on the project as I can get... And I do thank you all for giving me a lot of useful information and positive guidance.

It's less about how you've presented yourself and more about what you've presented. You've presented a proposal that will not fly, no matter how much determination and passion and all that other good stuff you have. It's not rude, it's the truth. Would you rather we lie to you and coddle you and hold your hand? It might make you happy now, but reality is reality and you'll be confronted with it eventually. Better to know beforehand so you don't waste the time and effort.

Nobody is telling you to give up, or that you won't succeed. However, we are telling you that you need to give up the idea of getting a licensing deal, a deal with a publisher, retail distribution, and all that, because you will not succeed in that. Those people don't deal with beginners.

The solution? Stop being a beginner by making a game with the resources you have available on the platforms you have available: the PC, or the 360 via XNA (or both). Put those grandiose dreams of seeing your game on store shelves on the back burner for now (besides, it's not that cool after the first few times, trust me).

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All comes down to the right questions for the right answers i guess... Are there GBA resources to help me make the game in full able to be produced for the console.. then after game is completed in full.. get the licence from nintendo after they review the game.

Or do I need the licence to actualy start producing the game itself?

I am more than confident that if the game is completed when I present it.. it will be a success. Pitching an idea to a company is obviously useless if your not in a major corp. Thats why I wanted help from you guys in finding information about making a game.

And another thing... what have proposed?? I've only proposed that i want to make a game.. so unless i actually need the licence to make the game I'm of coarse screwed.. but if not then at least i have a chance.

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Original post by Storm_WHM
All comes down to the right questions for the right answers i guess... Are there GBA resources to help me make the game in full able to be produced for the console
Did you actually look at the links that everyone has given you?

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then after game is completed in full.. get the licence from nintendo after they review the game.
Good luck on that. Again, as mentioned earlier, the chances are slim if not impossible given the market (you have done research right?)

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Or do I need the licence to actualy start producing the game itself?
No.

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And another thing... what have proposed?? I've only proposed that i want to make a game.. so unless i actually need the licence to make the game I'm of coarse screwed.. but if not then at least i have a chance.
You have proposed (with poor spelling) that you want to make a retail game where you have no prior experience or knowledge with the market, business models or console development. The retail part of the proposal is that part we are concerned about and the reason why we are hitting you with hard truths.

If you just wanted to make a game on a console without retail then the whole thing becomes much easier and simpler to deal with since you don't have to care about anything to do with the games industry and just concentrate on developing a game.

I ask you again: Is your aim to make a game or make a retail game?

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Original post by Storm_WHM
All comes down to the right questions for the right answers i guess... Are there GBA resources to help me make the game in full able to be produced for the console.. then after game is completed in full.. get the licence from nintendo after they review the game.
Sure. GBAdev, etc, should get you started.

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I am more than confident that if the game is completed when I present it.. it will be a success. Pitching an idea to a company is obviously useless if your not in a major corp. Thats why I wanted help from you guys in finding information about making a game.
I'm not sure it's the best use of your time to be working on a game that might not even be accepted by Nintendo for licensing. You still have to get it published and distributed, as well.

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And another thing... what have proposed?? I've only proposed that i want to make a game.. so unless i actually need the licence to make the game I'm of coarse screwed.. but if not then at least i have a chance.
You've proposed building a game on a machine with limited memory and third party development tools without having a lot of game programming experience. I still strongly recommend you develop the game for PC.

You're also implicitly proposing that you wish the game to be published and commercially distributed with no understanding of how the chain for this works. Nintendo generally does not publish third-party games, especially not brand-new American indies' games.

I know people who have made and sold their own cartridges through direct mail; this is probably not illegal (though Nintendo would certainly sue over the hardware purchased) but it did bear a large personal expense which they had serious difficulty recouping. These were experienced professional programmers.

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I have skimmed through the sites that you have sent me.. I've seen the possible programs to help make the game and get it together GBA does seem like the easiest to create. (On account that I am very against PC, Dreamcast, and GP32)

But as to my questions about actually getting licence to create a game i fell short of.. mabie its cause i didn't need a licence to create it that i fell short of finding it somewhere. I guess i was just looking for reassurance.

I kind of needed it to be explained to me. I am a beginner.. this is my research.
Thats why I posted for help to find out how I can get a game out there and if it is legal to make. I do thank you for all your help guys.

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Original post by Storm_WHM
I have skimmed through the sites that you have sent me.. I've seen the possible programs to help make the game and get it together GBA does seem like the easiest to create. (On account that I am very against PC, Dreamcast, and GP32)

Unless you are a programmer, you won't understand most of the material that we link. Get your programmer to look at the sites, he/she will have a much better idea on what to do with them.

Quote:
But as to my questions about actually getting licence to create a game i fell short of.. mabie its cause i didn't need a licence to create it that i fell short of finding it somewhere. I guess i was just looking for reassurance.

I kind of needed it to be explained to me. I am a beginner.. this is my research.
Thats why I posted for help to find out how I can get a game out there and if it is legal to make. Thanks for all your help.

Nothing is legally stopping you to develop your game. Distribution and publishing is another issue. The reason why I asked if you have done any market research is due to the fact that the GBA at the moment is not really a viable platform. When you finish your game (let's say 6 months time), the GBA may not even exist as a platform and therefore no one will publish it.

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Oh and on the retail question... That is my goal and the site you mentioned on how to propose it to a industry is very insightful like i said. But if all else fails and it is not excepted and produced then so be it, but that is still my goal. It is still a nice portfolio piece to have as well if all else fails. For my grammar.. Thats what spellcheck is for, to me this is a forum.. chat like program.. Not a published work of art.. Spelling is not my thing.. Art is..

Ya I was taking that in consideration.. that is why I was aiming for PS2, PSP, PS3 or something along that lines... but i do realize.. NintendoDS has a GBA spot in the console.. might not give out as fast as you think.. but making a NintendoDS game probably would be a better deal.. but it is all in the capabilities of my programmer.. He is only one who applied for my team on Help forums.

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