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dynaemyu

Delphi Questions

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I am quite new to programming and thought that Delphi would be an excellent choice.. but I am having a couple problems and want to know some things before i go off downloading Delphi lol. Ok there are 2 free compilers known of right now (i really dont wanna spend money for a compiler lol).. Turbo Delphi and Delphi 7 Personal... My questions are A) Can turbo delphi use DelphiX and graphics/sound/etc libraries for game development? I heard that turbo delphi couldnt use custom components this is why im asking. B) Delphi 7 Personal is free for non-commercial use... and I was hoping to make a game someday and bring it out and sell it to people.. this wouldn't be allowed? OR am I wrong? C) Can I sell products on Turbo Delphi? D) What's the difference between Turbo Delphi and Delphi 7? (Alot of people told me 7 was better, but im havin that problem with non-commercial use, See question B) E) C# is made by the person who made Delphi I think, is this a better programming language than Delphi? And for game development (PC Only, i dont want to make xbox games in the future) Thanks alot! I hope i can understand things more clearly and know which to obtain.

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good morning! :-)

well, i'm not that specialist, but i can post my opinion :-)

A) turbo delphi has the limitiation that you cannot add custom components like delphix, danjetx and whatever. well, but there are tricks to add them, it just isn't as easy as point and click :-) i never made it, but try to google it

B) this would surely not be allowed, you're right, but i think this is the proplem with turbo delphi as well

C) not quite sure, i think not... but try to learn delphi before you think of selling your games :-)

D) turbo delphi is newer, so you have cool ide enhancements like code snippets, you can fold up your procedures to have a better overview and such stuff... in my opinion, its just a matter of your personal view, i use delphi 7, but just because i don't want to buy a new delphi :-)

E) C# is from microsoft, while pascal and delphi are from borland, codegear or however they will be called in the future. C# always requires the .NET packages on the computer of your user installed, while delphi can make win32-executables, means that it doesn't require anything (depends on your components used, if you use delphix, directx will be required of course :-))

have you thought of using freepascal and lazarus? its a free project which is very famous just because it doesn't include the limitations of points A) B) and C). i think veeeery much people who are developing with pascal are using this combo.

also try looking at http://pascalgamedevelopment.com as well, a lot more delphi and fpc developers there...

have a nice day!

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about the licensing part...

Seriously, use whatever you can get and just put a dollar away each day and by the time you are still nowhere near having something worth selling you will have acquired quite a little nest-egg that you can put towards something else because you have become bored with programming... or if (by some crazy chance) you are still persuing selling software you can use that nest-egg to pay for whatever licensing you might need, and by that time you will probably have gone through more than one compiler / IDE anyway so I wouldn't get too hung-up on "non-commercial use". It's like worrying about what kind of dentures I'm going to use when I'm 70. Just a thought.

Personally I'm using Borland Delphi 2005 which isn't free, but let's not get into that. I really like it compared to what I used to use which was Borland Delphi 4. It's like a whole new pretty and functional world in comparison. Free stuff tends to hurt when you use it, but you get what you pay for as they say.

Good to see another Delphi coder. Some days I feel like I'm the only hobby Delphi coder on the planet. Good luck.

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Yeah. There aren't many Delphi (hobby) programmers out there ... but I'm one of them ;)

I've been using Delphi 7 Personal for a very long time, and I'm still happy with it. It has pretty goog IDE and a solid debugger. I would recommend you this one.

And about the licensing issues ... if you're making a game, you use Delphi Forms or some other components? I only use a Form and a Timer, and this could be easily replaces by WinAPI calls. So you need to modify it that way and then ... compile under FreePascal with Delphi-compatible mode turned on. This way you could develop in Delphi but still sell the product without violating the licence (IANAL).

Tommy

P.S.: One of my engines runs through WinAPI and the other one through SDL (which is better but in my engine still buggy).

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Thank you guys for all your answers! I certainly feel a little bit more comfortable of what I'm going with ;)

The only reason why I didn't mention non-borland products (FreePascal, Lazarus, etc) is because I heard they don't use the same Pascal language, rather a different dialect of it.

Thank you all :)


EDIT: Good news! My uncle (who loves programming) has Delphi 7 at his house (still in the box) and he'll give it to me :) So I don't have to worry.

[Edited by - dynaemyu on June 3, 2007 1:49:29 PM]

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Quote:
Original post by dynaemyu
I am quite new to programming and thought that Delphi would be an excellent choice.. but I am having a couple problems and want to know some things before i go off downloading Delphi lol.

Ok there are 2 free compilers known of right now (i really dont wanna spend money for a compiler lol).. Turbo Delphi and Delphi 7 Personal... My questions are

A) Can turbo delphi use DelphiX and graphics/sound/etc libraries for game development? I heard that turbo delphi couldnt use custom components this is why im asking.

B) Delphi 7 Personal is free for non-commercial use... and I was hoping to make a game someday and bring it out and sell it to people.. this wouldn't be allowed? OR am I wrong?

C) Can I sell products on Turbo Delphi?

D) What's the difference between Turbo Delphi and Delphi 7? (Alot of people told me 7 was better, but im havin that problem with non-commercial use, See question B)

E) C# is made by the person who made Delphi I think, is this a better programming language than Delphi? And for game development (PC Only, i dont want to make xbox games in the future)

Thanks alot! I hope i can understand things more clearly and know which to obtain.


I have been a long time user of Delphi (since version 1 actually) and currently use Delphi 7 Pro, Delphi 2006 Pro and Visual Studio Team Suite (C#) professionally for day to day tasks.

To try and answer your questions:

Quote:
A) Can turbo delphi use DelphiX and graphics/sound/etc libraries for game development? I heard that turbo delphi couldnt use custom components this is why im asking.

Short answer no, long answer yes. The free version of Turbo Delphi (Explorer edition) has a restriction that prevents you from adding components to the IDEs drag and drop interface. However if you can work without a visual designer, you can manually use and create them at run time (I actually use this method for some custom controls used in projects, so that they can easily be compiled on a fresh or unknown Delphi install without needing to install all the component dependencies into the IDE)

Quote:
B) Delphi 7 Personal is free for non-commercial use... and I was hoping to make a game someday and bring it out and sell it to people.. this wouldn't be allowed? OR am I wrong?

Correct, Delphi 7 Personal is basicly a learning edition, and so you can't use it for commercial purposes (even giving away something could be covered as commercial if you can financially benefit from it).

Quote:
C) Can I sell products on Turbo Delphi?

Yes. Even with Explorer edition. Given this is a short answer, I should point out that a restriction of Turbo Delphi is that you can only have one of the Turbo products installed on each machine: Installing Turbo Delphi prevents you from installing Turbo C#, Turbo Delphi.NET and Turbo C++ (the new one).

Quote:
D) What's the difference between Turbo Delphi and Delphi 7? (Alot of people told me 7 was better, but im havin that problem with non-commercial use, See question B)

It's hard to say. For a long time Delphi 7 has been the "last good" version of Delphi, as it was the last version that stayed true to Delphi's roots as a clean Win32 compiler that didn't create DLL dependency hell on end user machines (though it is going back to that with Delphi 2007, and Delphi 2005/2006 where bareable using the Win32 mode though stability wise they are flaky), rather then being a poor mans Visual Studio .NET clone. Unfortunately I haven't used the Pro version of Turbo Delphi so I can't give a good comparison. The ideal version would be Delphi 7 Pro, as you are getting restricted with Turbo or 7 Personal.

Quote:
E) C# is made by the person who made Delphi I think, is this a better programming language than Delphi? And for game development (PC Only, i dont want to make xbox games in the future)

Yes, Anders Hejlsberg made both Delphi and C#. He is a very notable figure in the world of language design, and is responsible for languages like Turbo Pascal, Delphi, J++ (The Microsoft Java language extension) and C#. He originally worked at Borland (after they bought his Turbo Pascal) but was headhunted by Microsoft to work for them (several other big people at Borland have also gone over to Microsoft, leading to the .NET success at Microsoft and the Delphi decline at Borland).

If you where already an experienced Pascal/Delphi programmer, it would be hard to decide which is better, however if you are new to programming I'd suggest C#. Hejlsberg was able to take many of the lessions from Delphi when designing it (It's basically a combination of Delphi type safety and library design, Smalltalk's object design, C++ syntax, and the lessons learned from Java's failings) and generally provides a much more up to date language. Additionally C# gets something that was always a problem for Delphi, support. With Delphi, you always had to rely on header translations and other fan-made libraries like DelphiX instead of being able to just download a standard SDK. While the new CodeGear brand may be able to revive Delphi, for the moment C# would be the choice, especially for games where you want to actually have decent gaming API support (Delphi has always been a business language first).

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So Delphi isn't good anymore?

Alot of people still use it too.. hm

To sound weird, I tried C# once and wasn't comfortable with it.. I dont know how to describe, but Microsoft made programming isnt for me.. it seems too limited I think, I feel free with Delphi though, that's why I asked this.

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Well, something that was good doesn't suddenly become "not good" just because something unconnected now exists. However based on a variety of factors, it may not be the best for what you want to do.

Some reasons:

A) You don't seem to have learned a specific language in depth yet, as a result you don't really have a base of knowledge that will be wasted.

B) You want to develop games. C# has up to date support, while Delphi is a business targeted language that has always limped along on 3rd party headers, always struggling with new versions and compatiblity. Frankly I was messing about with DelphiX when Delphi 5 3 (thinking back, I remember that I didn't have class completion at the time, and with my history of Delphi ownership that would put it at Delphi 3) was new. As far as I can tell, DelphiX has barely progressed since then apart from dropping some of the bigger bugs.

C) You seem to have a budget of $0. While I think Delphi is a good language, all the free versions of Delphi have major restrictions or missing features, while C# has a fairly well built free Express Edition. While a direct Visual Studio Pro vs Delphi 7/2006 Pro might be more balanced in regards to different advantages and disadvantages, a C# Express vs Turbo Delphi/Delphi 7 Personal is an easy win for C#.

Overall of course it's your choice. I can tell you as a Delphi developer that there is a bit of a learning hump to get over in C#, as it isn't quite the inviting drag and drop your first application like Visual Basic and Delphi are. Once you've gotten your teeth into it both are about the same difficulty (though to be honest the clear and concise Delphi 7 help system has yet to be beaten by any IDE, not by MSDN, and certainly not by the horriblely weighed down documentation in more recent versions of Delphi).

You should ultimately develop in the language that you are most productive in.

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Oh I see what you're trying to say now, sorry for misunderstanding ;)

You're basically saying Delphi is good, but for what I want to do, it isn't the best (because of the lack of support and you need to make custom components and etc)

Maybe I should be heading into the route of C or C++ first, since it's the industrial standard and all, even though it's not considered a language to learn first.

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the funny thing is that you will probably end-up learning more than one language in the end anyway and try a few things in different languages etc.

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