What, in your opinion, is the best method of teaching programming to people new to and somewhat-immersed in the concept? I'm meaning to ask students and teachers this question, for I want the best advice on this. [Story behind all this] I'm currently a student in high school, and I've taught myself the basics of programming beginning somewhere around 5th and 7th (HTML, RM2K, Game Maker, VB in that time). When I got to high school and took a computer class, I was unfortunately expecting some sort of a challenge, but there was none. Part of it was due to the fact that I had already learned a majority of the class materials, but the other part, I believe, was due to my teacher. She's a nice lady and all, but her teaching methods just don't seem to be up to par. When I was in the class, I knew for fact that none of the other students really learned anything in her class, unless they went off on their own - which didn't really happen. On that note, I know that it requires some sort of a willingness to be taught, and I know some of the kids there simply didn't give a damn about programming, and just wanted to take it for their technology credit. However, there were others that occasionally made an earnest effort, and they had difficult even starting a program since they hadn't learned crap - even if they were paying attention. When they asked my teacher for help, she generally didn't know what she was doing, since she mostly just had us do programs out of the book (occasionally just copying verbatim) and later she compared the output. To make another concession, I'm not saying it's my teacher's fault that they hadn't learned much. I'm not saying that I'm great at teaching either - in fact, I kinda suck at it, 'cause I'll have the meaning in my head, but I won't be able to form the words. And I know that any teacher you're bound to have, he/she's most likely not going to be an absolute proffessional, because if they were, they'd be at a higher-paying job. She recognized that I knew a bit of programming already, and could learn faster than the rest, so to that, I'm thankful. However, there would be times in which she would essentially waste time with petty powerpoint presentations about random tidbits of programming or the programming language (random when the student doesn't even know the basics of programming), and force us to sit there, while she read the slide word-for-word. These little sessions somewhat pissed me off, for she locked everyone's computer in the class, despite their level, and had us stare at the screen. Let me reiterate: waste of time. This was a problem for me, because I would use the free time in class (usually most of it after I finished the assignments) to work on my own projects. With all this taken into consideration, I think that she could do a better job of teaching, if not by actually learning something about programming other than trivia about "What's new in Java?", then just by teaching method. I've read other posts, where they generally mirror the same story: they haven't learned crap. What could the teacher do better, that's possible for them, that could make learning more effective? (I'd say fun, but that sounds too dang cheesy) What was the best method of teaching for you? Do you think that the teacher could make a significant in programming, or is really just a topic in which self-learning is the only effective approach? Note - Java is the main language - set by College Board for the AP. We begin Computer Science Pre-AP on VB, and in second semester go on to Java. In Computer Science I, we just start the year off in Java. Occasionally, we would get 'use your own langauge' assignments, but these are rare in occurance. [Sorry for the broken flow of the story. You can see why I had trouble formulating explanations]

unfortunately, alot of highschool and even alot of college teachers teaching programming or CS for that matter, have no clue how to make a your basic Hellow World Console App. They're pretty much teaching them selves as they go along. It's kinda hard to blame them though, as they can't really learn the stuff they should teach unless they themselves program, otherwise your just going by what a book tells you is write without knowing what it does.

I too went through your same situation a few years back, I had 5 years exp, in programming (3 basic, 2 C++), so I pretty much never listened too anything going on in the class, and found creative way to load SDL onto the server so I could mess around with something more than the console.

seriously in my oppinion if you dont learn anything from the class what's the point of offering the class.

Yeah. The only problem with her teaching it to herself: she's been teaching Computer Science (along with BCIS and a few other computer classes) since the late '80s / early '90's - I'm not entirely sure. She's ~40 years old, so senility isn't really an excuse.

I'm not trying to harp on here or anything. No one's a saint in this situation, not me, not the teacher, and not the other students.

Quote:And the best way for them to program is to give them fun or interesting programming projects. Coming up with fun projects for new programmers is the hard part though because their inexperience limits what they can write.

I agree. What would the projects be, that inexperienced programmers could do, other than the usual "input number, output number again" assignments? I don't think I ever had a fun assignment in her class. Especially not when she assigned us to do the Marine Biology Simulator - boring, and the coding style... I just didn't like it.

Quote:my ideal method... well if my department decides to let me teach some of the lower division programming classes (which they do for some masters students like myself), i would teach in weird style, not like the other professors i have had. i would not do the whiteboard/chalkboard/PPT thing at all. i would just sit there at the computer and program, and expect the other students to program with me. i would have mandatory attendence, an easy midterm, a harder final he he he, and a small project due once a week and maybe one large project due at the end of the quarter.

With this method, would you maintain the class whilst you program (tell slackers to do something), and have your screen up on the projector, or have it as a free-for-all, one of those "if you don't do it, I say nothing and you fail" situations?

Quote:PPT lecturing = the more SUCKAGE (so i feel for you on this one... it gets worse in college he he he).

Aw, crap.
Do teachers/professors actually find this effective? Or is it that they don't want to put any more effort into it than needed?

Quote:so i think HS (C++/Java) programming is always going to suck unless it's an AP class or something filled with eepsters he he he.

The AP classes weren't any better... I think so far that one kid that didn't really program before learned some C# and used XNA to make a couple of 2D shooters. After three years in her class (He was in my classes the first two years, and this year I didn't even put CS on my schedule).

Welcome to modern education. It's not really as though any of your other classes are any better as seen by someone who has studied a little on the side. Some of it is the general deterioration (and increasing disrespect) of teaching as a profession. Some of it is the general increase in bureaucracy and 'striving for universal mediocrity'. A good deal of it is students who by and large see little benefit in being intelligent and cultured; 'tis not a requirement for rising out of the lower classes anymore.


As for my opinion, the answer varies greatly on the student. Different people learn very differently.