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TheKrust

Love it or hate it... does it really make things better?

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I have a game that I am currently in development on. You can read about it here http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=455119 for reference, but basicly, my question is this. Origionally, the plan was to have no magic what-so-ever in the game. It would be an RPG relying on real-time fighting skills and technology such as the loose incorperation of guns. The idea behind that being that I simply didn't like the idea of magic, let alone in something that I was desining. But I was working today at my crappy ass job (he he he) and something suddenly hit... I don't normally like RTS games, but age of mythology is the only one I like. I love RPG games, and I've hardly ever seen one that didn't use magic. Before-hand, I viewed the idea of magic... well... to be frank, kinda gay. But now it hit me that there become so many more angles playable when magic elements are combined with it. So my question is this, How do I incorperate the magic elements to a semi-realistic, modern day based RPG without: 1. Becoming a cliche 2. having people hear about my game and go "Magic, that blows" ( and I'm talking about your typical teenager that thinks magic is little kid crap) 3. Having magic elements without interfering with or nullifying modern day technology. (ie Fire explosion spells vs. rocket launchers) Is this kind of idea even possible without breaking an "idea boundry". PS: by idea boundry, I mean people being so skeptical about your game being "really out there" that they don't even want to try it EDIT: While I'm on the subject, another concern I have is if I were to make a game using magic AND slightly more advanced than modern technology, how could I do this without having genres clash. Please no references to THEIF. [Edited by - TheKrust on July 12, 2007 1:41:06 AM]

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Quote:
Original post by TheKrust
and I'm talking about your typical teenager that thinks magic is little kid crap

huh?

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lol, ok your point was made, but what I'm trying to say is:

1. the MAJORITY audience of that movie is smaller childeren and older people who read the books. That's not your typical "Lets go get drunk on friday dude" teenager

2. Harry Potter is a highly acclaimed, multi billion dollar collective project... I'm a guy with C++ and some cool knowlege.

I'm not saying that I'm aiming for selling this game to kids who thought the matrix 3 was a great movie, but I do want the "common teen" to hear about the idea and not completley reject it from the start because of "magical wizards and dragons".

The typical teen, as you might figure, take up a good part of the market. I'd be a shame not to tap into that.

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I must really be getting old if the current crop of teenagers is culturally different enough to think that magic is uncool. What happened to the ability to throw fireballs at bullies and afterwards seduce a cute elf being something every high school student dreamed of? [looksaround]

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but I do want the "common teen" to hear about the idea and completley reject it from the start because of "magical wizards and dragons".

(emphasis added) I know its a typo but this made me laugh...

Now to actually try and be helpful, hmmm, Star Wars? I would say "The Force" counts as "Magic that doesn't blow" and I think the main reason it works in a universe with lots of technology is
Access to the "Magic" must be limited.
- Only certain people should have access to it to avoid it eliminating the need for technology
- It should cost the player something to use it and they shouldn't be able to easily get the something back (for example age the player)

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"The force" being magic is debatable, but you do have a good thought. I never thought of having something similar to that, but I don't wanna rip off star wars.

hmmm, I suppose that magic (obviously called something different in the game) could be something either very rare or intentionally repressed by authority. There's an idea... not saying what it is though :D

Anyway, you do have a good point but keep in mind that star wars take place in a different era, and a different galaxy with superior technology. This takes place in what could amount to a really crappy version on new jersey in the middle of a third world country.

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I'm gonna have to agree with Sneftel & sunandshadow.

I don't know a single person who doesn't like magic... I'm your Typical Teenager by the way.

Atleast, as long as it's not 'sissy' magic like Powerpuff girl stuff. Then again, I do know alot of Typical Teenager chicks who like stuff like that [smile].

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Quote:
Original post by TheKrust
The typical teen, as you might figure, take up a good part of the market. I'd be a shame not to tap into that.


Just this once, I won't make an inappropriate joke.

Now, I'm assuming two things:
1. You're young yourself
2. You have a personal distaste for magical themes

Now, as far as putting off the magic-is-teh-gay portion of the population, who needs them? If you want to make a game with magic, then do that. If you want to make a game without magic, then do that instead. Want to make a game where everybody is a wild boar armed to the teeth? Fine.

When you make any game, you're likely to put off somebody, but you aren't making the game for them anyways. I don't think that "magic blows" constitutes an overwhelming majority of teenagers, although I'm sure it's some portion.

You're right that magic does open up a number of possibilities, and can be a convenient deus-ex-machina. On the other hand, if you keep with your original premise, then making the game work the way you want will challenge your creativity and innovation.

Implementing both a magical and technological world can be fun as well, and none of these three options are really cliche unless you fail to put any effort in. Besides that, it's hard not to do something that's been done before, and at what point do you consider something cliche?

Where do you draw the line with these? :

"A video game where an evil wizard kidnaps a princess and has an evil dragon for a pet."
"A video game where an evil wizard uses evil magic in an evil way."
"A video game where a not-so-evil wizard uses magic in a likely to be evil way."
"A video game where a wizard of some sort uses magic in some way."
"A video game about role-playing in any capacity."
"A game played on an electronic device connected to a display of some sort." (Sooo done before)

Frankly, there's been hundreds of stories about wizards, robots, or gritty cops on dangerous streets. There's been hundreds of strategy, role-playing, and shooter games. One brave hero? Thousands of years old. A brave group of heroes? That too.

In the end, as long as you add some unique and interesting addition to an old saw, it won't be a cliche. As long as it's fun, people will play it. People who are disinterested simply won't. Done worry about cliche thought, after all, there's nothing new under the sun, right?

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ok ok, guilty as charged on both assumptions. Maybe I'm just not really looking at the magic thing from the right angle. I think that all people INSIDE are magic lovers (to an extent). They're just in the closet lol

But ok, now I think I might have a new problem that can be handeled on a new forum... but we can surely contiue this one.

The answers commin right now are great, really stuff I'm looking for.

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As far as this common man hating magic based stories crap goes, you'd be surprised at how many different people I've met who like that stuff. I knew a few hot chicks VERY into final fantasy, a big tough mechanic who wouldn't stfu about World Of Warcraft.

How many people don't like the LOTR movies?

Fantasy novels often list fairly well in the NY Times best seller list.

If you want to downplay your magic, look into low fantasy stories. They have magic, but it's very restricted to a few wizard types, and even then, it's not endless big spells.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_fantasy

High magic stories / settings are the opposite. I'll use the new D&D setting Eberron as an example. They have magic powered trains to quickly travel over the continent, and the streets have magic powered lanterns lighting them up at night. They even have a player race called the WarForged who are robot like creatures brought to life by magic.

As for magic in a modern setting, there are plenty of examples of how to handle it. Buffy and Angel are good examples. The Crow, etc.

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