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But now it hit me that there become so many more angles playable when magic elements are combined with it.

It would be helpful if you could expand upon what particular "angles" you have in mind.

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1. Becoming a cliche

Try to avoid "magic points" concepts. Don't make magic just another health-type bar.

Avoid the stereotypical library of effects: damage dealing, buffing, defense, healing.

Definately no fire balls, lightning bolts, or instant full-body healing.

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2. having people hear about my game and go "Magic, that blows" ( and I'm talking about your typical teenager that thinks magic is little kid crap)

Avoid sparkly particles and glowing auras.

Stay far away from pointy hats, robes, wands, and riding broom-sticks. I'm sure I didn't need to mention those. [disturbed]

Consider the 'psionic' angle. Remote viewing, mind reading, mind control, and at higher levels things like telekinesis, pyro, levitation. Too much beyond that you start getting into 'superhero' type powers which again might seem like kiddie stuff.

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3. Having magic elements without interfering with or nullifying modern day technology. (ie Fire explosion spells vs. rocket launchers)

You could keep magic relatively passive; no attack spells. Make them reactive to some stimulus. Detection, defenses, and stationary traps.

You could have no "casting" and tie all magic effects to items. Again you'll want to avoid cliches like staves, cloaks, rings, and amulets.

You could go the route where the magic is done by some deity, who bestows artifacts or blessings upon it's followers as a reward for correctly performing some ritual (or a curse for doing it incorrectly). This seems out of place for a modern setting, but still could work (think H.P. Lovecraft).

That's all I can come up with right now.

Taking the Star Wars example and running with it. It seems that taking all the laws of physics and what things are like today and altering them slighty then working out what things would be like is a common way to create an interesting world.

If you can get a hold of Full Metal Alchemist have watch of one of the episodes. I'm not a fan but it's an interesting mechanic. Basically certain people after training or gaining the knowedge of how it works can use 'transmutation circles' to alter the world around them. They can't change water into wine but given the base ingredients they can create something out of it.

This works off the principal of equivalent exchange, you can only transmute something by putting in it's worth from the other side. In other words something must be lost in order to gain something else.

Anyway the story basically starts with two brothers trying to reanimate their dead mother. One of them looses an arm and a leg while the other looses his entire body and has to be affixed to a suit of armour. They did create something but it wasn't their mother. The story progresses and there are some interesting twists. Worth the watch.

I like the concept of altering a few rules and working out what has to be true if the rest of the laws still exist. As for a unique idea, that's up to you.

"Magic" (note the inverted commas) is around us today. When you were a child and wanted a treat from the shops, you parents would say something like: "What, the magic word". And if you said it (the word is "please" if you didn't know), you would get the treat. As adults, we still use the word "please" to help us get what we want. We are still using this "Magic" from our childhood.

This is what "magic" means to most people. So magic is not just: "I viewed the idea of magic... well... to be frank, kinda gay."

However, in games, magic tends to be "Just another Weapon".

In the example of the "Kid in the Lolly Shop", the Kid did not have the Power (money) to get that Lolly, however, he did have the magic words ("please") that allowed him to achieve his goal (get the lolly).

Lets think about this in a game situation: Let's say you have the Black Knight who can't be killed by any mortal weapon. However, he is guarding the only weapon that can kill him. There play does not have the physical power to kill the Black Knight, but do they have the "Magic Words" to defeat him (it doesn't have to be words, it could be a magic ring, a potion, a cloak, a dance, etc). Well, in this case you might allow the player to paralyse the Knight (allowing them to walk past and pick up the weapon and kill the Black Knight), Allow the player to become invisible (and sneak past the Knight to get the weapon), and so on.

So in stead of "Roasting his ass over a slow fireball" kind of magic, you make the magic in your game special and not directly relating to combat.

Using magic as a weapon is a cliché. Making magic not usable as a weapon breaks this cliché(another cliché is just using magic as buffs and heals - avoid these, there are other ways that you can give the player the same gameplay effects).

Another way you can avoid the Magic clichés is to change the costs of using magic.

As an example. In "lord of the Rings" each time Frodo put on The Ring, he didn't use up manna (or some other magic points thing). He instead drew the attention of the Ring Wraiths.

Now for a game, that each time you used magic the Big Bad Wolf would come and knock over your house (metaphorically speaking), is not a good mechanic. If you wanted the house you wouldn't ever use magic. There is no interesting gameplay here (not unless there is something you want more than your house - and then there is no real decision too).

Instead, if you had it that every time you used magic, there was a risk that you would attract the attention of some "Other Evil" (which might make an interesting side quest). This Evil might have many different effects on the game play. They might steal something of the character's, put more obstacles in the way of the quest, or pretty much anything you can think of (you could even occasionally have a friendly NPC take an interest in the character wielding the magic).

There is also the "Magic as Technology", or "Any technology sufficiently advanced appears as magic". When ever you put a "Phasor" into a game, Faster than Light travel, or some other sci-fi technology, you are using "Magic" (note the inverted commas again).

In fact we even treat a lot of today's technology as "Magic" as many of us don't fully understand how the technology that we use works, we know the correct "spells" and "rituals" to make it work, but it really is "Just Like Magic".

Let's take something really simple like a light switch. It is a very simple piece of technology, but when we use it (the "Ritual") we just flick it on and it works (unless we haven't paid the electricity bill :) ). DO you understand how the power station works that generates the electricity, how the electricity moves along the wires to reach your house, how the mechanics of the light switch work to keep it in the on or off state (and how it stops or allows the electricity through it) or how the light bulb converts this electricity into light? At some point you probably don't understand how it works and just accept that it does. At that point you are treating the technology as magic.

To even view this page you have had to rely on this kind of "Magic". You types the URL (or clicked on the link) of this site and there you are. It seams simple, but it is incredibly complex (if you are really board, try it some time, describe all the steps needed to go from you finger pushing the "on" button on your computer to you seeing this website on your monitor - and for extra credit :) also list all the steps needed to get that computer onto your desk in the first place).

As you can see: Magic is all around us today.

Lastly, "Magic" as it is represented in games is very much a Western view of magic. Have a look at Some of the ways that the African peoples, the Australian Aborigines, the Ancient Greeks, the Ancient Egyptians, the Aztecs, etc, etc. Each of these peoples have a different view on what magic is, how it is invoked and the effects it can produce.

A bit of research and a bit of imagination can easily solve the problems you have with "Magic".

Quote:Original post by TheKrust
Yeah Edtharan
, I do see how the ring wraths thing might work, but calling magic and technology we don't understand the same thing is a big streach. I definitley see where you're coming from though. As how I refer to magic, is something completley impossible to happen... ever.

Would people in the sixth century have considered the ability to fly to be magic or technology?