• Advertisement
Sign in to follow this  

european . . . .

This topic is 3862 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Recommended Posts

talking about european country, what game genre you usually played? ? ? Role Playing Game Strategy Game MMORPG/FPS Action/Adveture Console Gaming other genre (specify) [Edited by - global_researcher on July 15, 2007 12:00:23 AM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement
The same games you play.

There isn't as much American Patriotism, so games like Americas Army won't do quite as well. Also censorship is quite common. I think the German version of Carmageddon had the pedestrians depicted as zombies with green blood - another common change.

So unless you are going for a very blood-thirsty game, or a game that would only appeal to Americans there shouldn't be much difference. Of course Europeans have a different sense of what is funny or a good story so if you want to specifically target this demograph you should do more research or ask more questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Economy simulations / strategy games like settlers, anno 1701 etc are probably played more often in Germany than in the US. Germans also like conquering the world or at least Europe I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Germans also like conquering the world or at least Europe I think.

LOL....just LOL.

I like all kinds of games, recently I'm more into the sandbox type games, free roam is alot of fun imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As others said, the same games as you, with subtle differences;

Here there might be issues with games depicting extreme violence.

On the other hand, at least in my country, there are no issues with
artistic nudes depicted in a game, comic, or whatever... as long as
it doesn't go too much explicit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by umbraeAlso censorship is quite common.

Hmm, not really... It's just different things that get censored. Germany has a thing about blood (and nazi symbols), but that's one country out of a few dozen. (On the other hand, sex isn't censored or avoided the way it is in the US [wink])
Which probably leads to a much more important difference... Europe isn't one market. What sells in the UK may not sell in France, and for some countries at least, it pretty much has to be translated. (While of course, in other countries, translating it will guarantee failure)

One reason why publishers tend to prefer America over Europe is not that it's a bigger market (these days it isn't), but because it's a lot simpler to sell your game there. It's one single market. Ads that work in Texas will be fine in New York too. And you don't need to translate the game for individual states.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by Spoonbender
One reason why publishers tend to prefer America over Europe is not that it's a bigger market (these days it isn't), but because it's a lot simpler to sell your game there. It's one single market. Ads that work in Texas will be fine in New York too. And you don't need to translate the game for individual states.

QFT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by umbrae
I think the German version of Carmageddon had the pedestrians depicted as zombies with green blood - another common change.


That was true of the UK version too, though it didn't do much good; I downloaded a red blood patch straight away ^_^

I'm not sure there are any stereotypes in Europe like there is with, for instance, the Koreans and multiplayer games and the Japanese with puzzle games. I know the Scandanavians are mad on poker, but that's about it.

Generally, I don't think there's a difference in game types. Here's one thing to bear in mind though: in a game where you get to pick your character's nationality, I think the average joe anywhere would pick their own the first time through. For instance, I much enjoyed playing as the Britons, and later the Saxons, in Rome: Total War. I remember in one of the C&C series (can't remember which) they had Korea as a playable option for one of the teams. Why did they put that in? Because they wanted the game to be popular in Korea (though if I remember correctly they totally overpowered the French in that game, so everybody played as them anyway). An obvious exception to this is that most Germans wouldn't want to play as Nazis in a WWII game, though I don't expect WWII games would be too popular in Germany anyway. Usually it's best to make your "bad guys" free from nationality.

One thing that sometimes bugs me is the use of American accents for the entire English speaking world. Anybody seen the new Assassin's Creed trailers? Despite everybody else sounding middle-eastern, the main character has this cliche holywood American accent, which was a real turn-off for me (though the game itself looks stonking I might add).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by Eternal
Economy simulations / strategy games like settlers, anno 1701 etc are probably played more often in Germany than in the US. Germans also like conquering the world or at least Europe I think.


You'd think that with the explosion of WW2 based games we've had recently someone would have had the balls to make one from the Germans perspective by now.

Make no mistake, I'm not a Nazi sympathiser (did I really have to say that?) but I'm sure there are many aspects of the German campaign that could be turned into a videogame, without an instant knee jerk reaction.

The "July 20 Plot" would be a good example, when Claus von Stauffenberg attempted to assassinate Hitler.

With that said though, I always think its funny when I'm playing a game like Medal of Honour or Call of Duty, just how many Germans I mercilessly gunned down, and how not one single German game allows you to return the favour. After all, games are a work of fiction, why should some subjects automatically be considered "taboo"?

Eternal, your profile says you are actually a German, perhaps you can tell me if any games exists on the market from any aspect of the German campaign (except grand strategy games like Rise of Nations of course), and what would be the reaction to it in Germany? How far could you go without being branded a Nazi lover?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Generally any game that allows you to play as Germans during WW2, which has any kind of Nazi propaganda or ideology in it would instantly be banned. Nazi symbols would probably also have to be replaced to avoid a ban. (Hell, even in the Wolfenstein games where all you do is shoot Nazis all symbols were censored.)

Playing Germans in the resistance would be fine.
Fighting in the east might be considered "less evil" than fighting in the west, but I think this would not be a big factor.

Games that allow you to play as Germans at a somewhat abstract level e.g. Hearts of Iron, Sudden Strike, Day of Defeat etc. is no problem, aside from personal criticism from non-gamers or people over 40 years old in general.
Something like Call of Duty, but played as a Nazi, would probably face a lot of criticism, because you have to convey a story in single player and that is hard or even impossible to do without being put into the "the game is gloryfying Nazis"-corner, which would immediatly get the game banned.

If you want to make a war game specifically about Germans picking any time other than WW2 would be a lot easier ;)

I can't think of any game focussing on parts of the German campaign. I also think such a game would be more likely to be made in the US, not here.

I hope that answered your question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by Prinz Eugn
I want to see a real Eastern Front game, that'd be better because who the bad guys are supposed to be is a moot question.

They both are the bad guys. Easy as pie.


Russians were evil during WW2? That's news to me.
Here's a hint. Despite what your dear American propaganda machine has told you, communism does not automatically imply evilness.

Russia probably did more than the US to win the war, so could we hold back a bit with the evilness? If Russia were so evil, I'm sure they'd had better things to do with those ten million soldiers who got killed fighting Germany...

After all, you're from a country that tried to ignore the war as long as possible, and only decided to enter, when its own interests were threatened, which doesn't sound very heroic to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by Spoonbender
Quote:
Original post by Prinz Eugn
I want to see a real Eastern Front game, that'd be better because who the bad guys are supposed to be is a moot question.

They both are the bad guys. Easy as pie.


Russians were evil during WW2? That's news to me.
Here's a hint. Despite what your dear American propaganda machine has told you, communism does not automatically imply evilness.


No, but sending millions of people to die in concentration camps does. Just ask Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

Quote:

Russia probably did more than the US to win the war, so could we hold back a bit with the evilness? If Russia were so evil, I'm sure they'd had better things to do with those ten million soldiers who got killed fighting Germany...


I think a better question would be why Soviet leadership let so many die by incompetent planning... you don't lose 10 million to 3 by being careful with your soldiers. Stalin's purge of the officer corps lost almost as many battles as the Germans won early in the war.

Just because they were fighting Nazis doesn't mean they couldn't be evil themselves, a common mistake. Here is a juicy little tidbit: the invasion of Poland? It came from both sides.
Quote:

After all, you're from a country that tried to ignore the war as long as possible, and only decided to enter, when its own interests were threatened, which doesn't sound very heroic to me.


Explain to me how this is different from how the war started for Britain, France, or the Soviet Union.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by Prinz Eugn
Quote:

Russia probably did more than the US to win the war, so could we hold back a bit with the evilness? If Russia were so evil, I'm sure they'd had better things to do with those ten million soldiers who got killed fighting Germany...


I think a better question would be why Soviet leadership let so many die by incompetent planning...

I think you answered your own question. They let so many die *because* of incompetent planning. (assuming your simplification is true, and incompetence was the one and only reason) That said, I don't think you or I are fully qualified to judge the competence of russian leaders 70 years ago.

Quote:

you don't lose 10 million to 3 by being careful with your soldiers.

On the other hand, you may not win as many wars by being careful with your soldiers. The careful action would have been to say "screw this, we'll fight you if you press further into our land, where we have the advantage".
But would Germany have lost if they'd done that?
And while the Soviet Union has a fair bit to answer for, does that make them the bad guys in WW2? Were the US the bad guys too, because it has committed crimes outside the war? Is the US war effort during WW2 somehow negated because later on, the US decided to invade Vietnam or Iraq? Or because earlier on, the US slaughtered the native Americans? That might have been a crime, but in the scope of WW2, it's not very relevant.

My point is simply that regardless of your personal opinion, it wouldn't be "easy as pie" to make your Eastern Front game, and portray Russia as "the bad guys too". At least not if you wanted to sell your game outside the US.

Quote:

Explain to me how this is different from how the war started for Britain, France, or the Soviet Union.

If it's no different, explain to me why the Soviet Union were "the bad guys", and the US isn't.
But it is fairly obviously different, because these countries didn't have much choice. They were in a different situation, where sitting back and waiting to see who won wasn't really an option. True, if one of these countries had happened to sit a continent away, unaffected by the war, they might have chosen a similar course of action, but that wasn't the case, so the comparison is invalid.
But that's hardly relevant for this thread.

As I said, I simply wanted to point out that not everyone shares your black/white view, and that's worth keeping in mind if you want to sell your game in Europe (which this thread is about)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by Spoonbender
Quote:
Original post by Prinz Eugn
I want to see a real Eastern Front game, that'd be better because who the bad guys are supposed to be is a moot question.

They both are the bad guys. Easy as pie.


Russians were evil during WW2? That's news to me.
Here's a hint. Despite what your dear American propaganda machine has told you, communism does not automatically imply evilness.

Russia probably did more than the US to win the war, so could we hold back a bit with the evilness? If Russia were so evil, I'm sure they'd had better things to do with those ten million soldiers who got killed fighting Germany...

After all, you're from a country that tried to ignore the war as long as possible, and only decided to enter, when its own interests were threatened, which doesn't sound very heroic to me.


This is completely off-topic:

Just so you know... Russia tried to take over Finland first in Winter War at 39-40 and later in Continuation War at 41-44. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers were killed an even more wounded. I suggest you to update your information. Wikipedia is a good start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:
Original post by Spoonbender
Quote:
Original post by Prinz Eugn
Quote:

Russia probably did more than the US to win the war, so could we hold back a bit with the evilness? If Russia were so evil, I'm sure they'd had better things to do with those ten million soldiers who got killed fighting Germany...


I think a better question would be why Soviet leadership let so many die by incompetent planning...

I think you answered your own question. They let so many die *because* of incompetent planning. (assuming your simplification is true, and incompetence was the one and only reason) That said, I don't think you or I are fully qualified to judge the competence of russian leaders 70 years ago.


Are you? Can you honestly say that they did their very best? I've done quite a bit of reading on my own and I can say the incompetence is criminal, and there are quite a few authors that would agree. Stalin chose his generals for political reliability, not skill in battle. Price? A couple million human lives.

I didn't say it was the only reason so many were killed, but it was a leading factor, and one that could've been prevented if Stalin and the Soviet government cared more their country than their own power base. Allowing so many to die for no military gain is what is evil about the Soviet Union, not the fact that they let soldiers die fighting.

Quote:
Quote:

you don't lose 10 million to 3 by being careful with your soldiers.

On the other hand, you may not win as many wars by being careful with your soldiers.

They weren't just not careful, they were recklessly irresponsible and downright Machiavellian. You're a Soviet General. So what if your soldiers will be slaughtered holding a city of little strategic value? You'll get a medal and probably get to stick around a bit longer before the Generalissimo Stalin sets the NKVD to go get you.

Allowing retreat in the face of impossible odds is not being overly careful, it's being smart.

Quote:
The careful action would have been to say "screw this, we'll fight you if you press further into our land, where we have the advantage".
But would Germany have lost if they'd done that?


If they would've been able to conduct an orderly retreat, yes, Germany would have lost, and probably sooner. The Wehrmacht only was able to get so close to Moscow due to the fact that the Soviet military was unable to organize itself because the officer corps had been vetted by Stalins Purge of late 1930's.

So being more careful, or rather less stupid, would have resulted in a better outcome for Soviet citizens. Why was leadership so bad? The Great Comrade Stalin ridding the Communist Party of counter-revolutionary infiltrators!!

Quote:

And while the Soviet Union has a fair bit to answer for, does that make them the bad guys in WW2? Were the US the bad guys too, because it has committed crimes outside the war? Is the US war effort during WW2 somehow negated because later on, the US decided to invade Vietnam or Iraq? Or because earlier on, the US slaughtered the native Americans? That might have been a crime, but in the scope of WW2, it's not very relevant.

People were still hauled away to the GUlag during the war, including Generals, soldiers, civilians and even recaptured POW's that weren't patriotic enough to get run over by a tank instead of surrender. The Red Army would literally liberate Russian POW's and then promptly have the NKVD move them to soviet work camps until they were charged with Treason of the Motherland and permanently sentenced.

Soviet crimes during WW2 were ongoing and even accelerated, as suddenly the Supreme Soviet had many more countries to subjugate.

Quote:

My point is simply that regardless of your personal opinion, it wouldn't be "easy as pie" to make your Eastern Front game, and portray Russia as "the bad guys too". At least not if you wanted to sell your game outside the US.

I could sell it in Poland, Latvia, and Hungary, or many of the other countries that suffered under Soviet oppression, but Especially Poland.
Quote:

Quote:

Explain to me how this is different from how the war started for Britain, France, or the Soviet Union.

If it's no different, explain to me why the Soviet Union were "the bad guys", and the US isn't.

The Soviet Communist regime was just as criminal regime as the Nazi
Regime.

Being on the victorious side of a war or even being attacked first does not immunize you from evil.

I never said the United States was the good guy, in fact the US had it's fair share of war crimes that went unpunished. The USAAF and RAF bombing offensives made the Luftwaffe during the Blitz look like a bunch of amateurs when it comes to killing civilians.

The game would be different because neither side would really be able to claim much of the moral high-ground at all. Plus, it's a side of the war that is really underrepresented in our culture, even though it formed the majority of the combat of the war.
Quote:

But it is fairly obviously different, because these countries didn't have much choice. They were in a different situation, where sitting back and waiting to see who won wasn't really an option. True, if one of these countries had happened to sit a continent away, unaffected by the war, they might have chosen a similar course of action, but that wasn't the case, so the comparison is invalid.
But that's hardly relevant for this thread.

The US hardly sat it out, waiting to see who won. Lend-Lease aid was keeping Britain in the war long before Peal Harbor. Roosevelt was trying to do his best to keep the guise of "Neutrality" for the American public while giving the UK as much help as he could. You probably aren't familiar with the "Garden Hose" analogy.
Japan attacked us, but we put most of our military force in Europe, meaning we had picked our fight before December 7th.

Quote:

As I said, I simply wanted to point out that not everyone shares your black/white view, and that's worth keeping in mind if you want to sell your game in Europe (which this thread is about)


I hardly have a black and white view, I don't see the Soviet Union as worthy of praise merely because they were on our side during WW2. All sides did terrible things, that's war.

I think such a game would be educational, as it wouldn't be the normal "Good vs Bad," it'd be more realistic "Side A vs Side B."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lol who would have thought a simple 'what games do you play?' topic would turn into such an intense discussion. I think the last guy goy it right, surely in a situation like that everybody can be made out to be the bad guy, if that wasn't true then there would be no war.
And I'd like to see a game where you can play as a nazi, I'm sick of playing the patriotic soldier killing the nazi's and saving the world single handed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Couldn't you play the germans in A bridge too far, or whatever that Microsoft game was called?
If I remember correctly the maps and story was the same, it's just that you could choose to control the german soldiers on the other end of the map instead of the allied soldiers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, sorry I kinda hijacked the thread, but I would like to see a game where you aren't supposed to believe you're fightin' the good fight.

A WW2 shooter from the perspective of every side would add a lot depth to the game, in exploring the moral ambiguity created by war.

There was a game, Panzer General 2, that let you play as Nazi Germany, and even conquer the US, but it was a Turn-based Strategy game.

There are a lot of legal obstacles in making historically accurate games in some countries(Like how you can't mention Nazis very much in Germany).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How about a WWII game from the point of view of a French peasant? The object is to (a) not get shot, (b) not get blown up, (c) not get run over by a tank, and (d) not starve to death. If you win you get to keep what's left of your cow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are all so wrong!!!
Tom Hanks won the war, not the US or the Sovjet Union.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry to interrupt you but... I won the war. Several times now, last one being Call Of Duty II. Maybe I get shot for betraying my home country, though.

It's a weird situation somehow. As long as the game lasts you don't exactly care who's the enemy... it's just another game and you're shooting enemies to proceed in the game. But thinking back now it comes to mind that all these pixel men are supposed to be germans. If I was born 50 years earlier than I actually am, I'd most propably be one of them. I don't have the illusion that I would be some resistance hero back then... a small light among the masses is more likely. So there are propably some million people out there that killed me virtually. Plus I've propably shot my virtual twin somewhere in virtual france while progressing through the game. Do I bother? Not exactly. Am I evil? I do not feel so, no, although others might judge otherwise.

Firstly, to me it simply shows that virtual events and real events don't link. Might be an interesting point to note in the present "Violence In Games" discussion taking place in Germany, but a single vote does not posess any statistical relevance. Secondly, what exactly is the reason then that there should be no game featuring a german soldier? To me it would feel... wrong to play a Nazi. It could be done in a MaxPayne style, with a lot of doubts and conflicts going on inside the character, but a morally simple game like Call Of Duty ... no I don't want to play this on the german side. Which raises the point why I didn't worried playing it on the allied side. After all, the overall actions are about the same: shooting and killing, without a lot of mercy for wounded enemy soldiers and all the other gruelties inescapably coming with a war.

I guess that's a private german problem. Judging from other posts in this thread, others wouldn't have a problem playing a Nazi if the role is designed right. Plus it's a bit far off of the topic of european gamers.

Bye, Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing to note is that many people in Finland play games like Panzer General or Close Combat with Germans or Allied alike. Playing with Germans, people are in general thinking to be in Wehrmacht with Panzer Lehr, with Rommel, Guderian, Kleist or somesuch. The ideology is more aside and what matters is the brilliant tactics employed of the time and in some instances a superior combat gear and great aces, tank commanders or U-boat captains. Games like Civilization are also played with Russians with no problems (one thing to note Soviet Union is not the same as Russia, the two terms cannot be used interchangeably).

There probably is a great deal of moral objections on making a game from German perspective. As pointed out earlier, Max Payne styled game would be nice. With a storyline of a Gestapo or a (Waffen) SS officer doubting the morales or even better a Wehrmacht officer starting to have doubts about the system and what is going on in the home front leading even to Coup d'état as there were less succesful plans. Equally interesting would be a game from a Soviet perspective. I don't find the system was so bad especially in the US people are generally believing. (And actually, communism isn't the system there was in Soviet Union or there is in China, so the term is used inappropriately).

To those who didn't know, Finland fought in WW2 against Soviet Union and against Germany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Advertisement