Quote:Original post by Dolf
So what should I be thinking of? entry-level salary wise? :)
In 2002, the average for a new programmer was around $49,000 (source).
Game Industry
In 2002, the average for a new programmer was around $49,000 (source).
Author
Not bad, kindof what I expected. What struck me was:
"Average
additional
compensation
$17,559"
Is that a year based bonus? Or is that simply traveling cost and other things like that?
"Average
additional
compensation
$17,559"
Is that a year based bonus? Or is that simply traveling cost and other things like that?
Quote:Original post by Driv3MeFarQuote:Original post by Dolf
So what should I be thinking of? entry-level salary wise? :)
In 2002, the average for a new programmer was around $49,000 (source).
That varies incredibly from area to area, tho.
Im reading the blog linked by the OP right now, and I strongly disagrees with him.
1) He says you'll need to relocate to the west coast. I say there are good game studios everywhere in the world.
2) Overtime is not worst than other software areas Ive worked, and all game developpers I know have a pretty good social life. Everybody I work with do sport several times a week.
3) He says, and I quote "There is no time for on the job training". I say thats bullcrap. Everyone continuously learns on the job. You *have* to be good to get a job, but no one will expect an entry-level to have the performance or knowledge of an industry veteran. In fact, expect a lot of training in your first months of a new job.
In my opinion, this guy has no idea what hes talking about.
*Good* software engineers / programmers are in high demand right now, in the game industry and others.
Quote:Original post by Steadtler
In my opinion, this guy has no idea what hes talking about.
*Good* software engineers / programmers are in high demand right now, in the game industry and others.
Yeah, it strikes me that this guy has no industry experience, and is just passing on all the rumors and anecdotes that people (who also don't know what they're talking about) spread about the game industry.
Most of what the guy wrote is basically true, but it is a little exaggerated. It also varies somewhat from and project to project and company to company.
Quote:Original post by Driv3MeFarQuote:Original post by Dolf
So what should I be thinking of? entry-level salary wise? :)
In 2002, the average for a new programmer was around $49,000 (source).
Those numbers are pretty sound, however, keep in mind that the 49k figure is not a measure of initial salary it is the average of salaries of all survey subjects who responded and had less than 2 years experience. The difference in salary between someone just starting and someone at 2 years is sometimes quite pronounced.
Anecdotally, I've been offered all but one position that I've interviewed for, and in game studios around the Seattle area I've been offered significantly less than that figure, being that I had no industry experience. An average offer, for me, of initial salary was around 36k average, with the highest being 42k and the lowest being the pitiful amount of 27k (which I nearly laughed at, had I had less professional composure). Its fairly common practice to have newbies on an "evaluation" period for 6-12 months, after which their salary is up for renegotiation. Then again, I know a fellow who started at Bungie fresh out of school at 66k, although he had beaten out industry vets for the position.
The numbers are valid, just don't go in expecting nothing less than 49k for an initial salary.
As ravyne2001 pointed out, the "averages" can be a bit misleading.
I think the majority of the posts in this thread have pointed out pretty clearly that the author of the article is talking out of his ass.
I think the majority of the posts in this thread have pointed out pretty clearly that the author of the article is talking out of his ass.
The article sounds somewhat accurate, but overly generalised.
I've worked at a major developer for the past 2 years and I'd like to address a few points.
1) I often work 70-80 hours a week, but never more than that. I usually crunch more from april - august though with the rest of the year being mostly 40 hour weeks. Different people work different amounts of overtime. There are two main reasons for overtime.
One is that when features change(and they always will), you don't always (i.e. never) have the slack in your schedule to do the work without overtime.
The other is that a feature just takes someone longer than they said it was going to. I find that this happens fairly often. Many times due to managers or more experienced engineers trying to convince other engineers that their original estimates are too high.
2) The number of new graduates in the industry is fairly high, however it differentiates greatly from team to team, and company to company. I think there was only one engineer on my team over 25 years old this year, but I know other teams where the vast majority of engineers were much more experienced (it really depends on the needs of the project). I wouldn't really worry about this at all though. Younger people are interested in video games. There aren't that many 50 year olds that play games (at least not yet), so they would be less inclined to enter the industry. There are only so many qualified applicants. The real trick (if you are qualified that is) is to make sure your resume will get noticed. Work experience is a definate help(internship or coop is good enough. Doesn't need to be game related). Friends in the industry are even better.
Essentially, it's up to you to put in the effort. How much spare time do you want to spend honing your skills? I program games all day for a living and I still have my own research projects going on at home. Working on a game demo would be a really good idea while you're in school.
Some people don't like long hours, but honestly, I get paid a good salary to make video games, and most weeks I still get out 4 or 5 hours to plays sports.
I've worked at a major developer for the past 2 years and I'd like to address a few points.
1) I often work 70-80 hours a week, but never more than that. I usually crunch more from april - august though with the rest of the year being mostly 40 hour weeks. Different people work different amounts of overtime. There are two main reasons for overtime.
One is that when features change(and they always will), you don't always (i.e. never) have the slack in your schedule to do the work without overtime.
The other is that a feature just takes someone longer than they said it was going to. I find that this happens fairly often. Many times due to managers or more experienced engineers trying to convince other engineers that their original estimates are too high.
2) The number of new graduates in the industry is fairly high, however it differentiates greatly from team to team, and company to company. I think there was only one engineer on my team over 25 years old this year, but I know other teams where the vast majority of engineers were much more experienced (it really depends on the needs of the project). I wouldn't really worry about this at all though. Younger people are interested in video games. There aren't that many 50 year olds that play games (at least not yet), so they would be less inclined to enter the industry. There are only so many qualified applicants. The real trick (if you are qualified that is) is to make sure your resume will get noticed. Work experience is a definate help(internship or coop is good enough. Doesn't need to be game related). Friends in the industry are even better.
Essentially, it's up to you to put in the effort. How much spare time do you want to spend honing your skills? I program games all day for a living and I still have my own research projects going on at home. Working on a game demo would be a really good idea while you're in school.
Some people don't like long hours, but honestly, I get paid a good salary to make video games, and most weeks I still get out 4 or 5 hours to plays sports.
Oh, and as for the "there aren't many thriving game companies" comment. I would have to agree with this one. It is extremely hard to start up a game company. It's not like the NES days where one or two engineers in a basement could crank out a game in a couple months. Starting up a company requires LOTS of capital, and if your first game is a bust, then the company folds.
With that said, there are lots of companies that have made this jump, but not as many as you would think. It's getting more and more expensive to develop a competing game these days.
With that said, there are lots of companies that have made this jump, but not as many as you would think. It's getting more and more expensive to develop a competing game these days.
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