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I wanted to take the time to say sorry.

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Well when I first walked into these forums I stated the simple thing that everyone states, that has NO IDEA how programming works... "I want to make a game - now, help." And I'm sorry. I started out by trying to learn how to make a game using VB 6.0 (Visual Basic 6.0, which is OLD) with DirectX before even understanding how to program... that went on for about a month and then I realized I might be learning how to display images, sounds, and gather some input - but I had NO IDEA how programming really worked. I visited the book store recently... and I then realized that to make a game, I must first learn a language... So I decided to drop the old VB 6.0... at which some reason when I started on my mission I thought was a decent up to date programming tool...LoL - at the time I didn't understand it was a RAD tool - which wasn't even really ment for game programming... (at the point I didn't even know what RAD ment.) but now I feel like I'm on track. I got a simple 400 pg C++ programming book, small primer book that is, which works hand in hand with Dev-C++, it also teachs you to write code using a simple text editor - along with g++ to compile... but I use Dev-C++ for the debugging, fast compiling, and fast .exe creation. I went with C++ because it just seems so damn widely used, and it uses OOP, but its flexible from what I've seen so far... kinda scary that I think I'm starting to understand some of this stuff... teheheheheheheheheheh... Either way I wanted to openly say SORRY to the forum for being the every-day JOE that wants to make a game. *Goes back to trying to understand data types, strings, constants, switch conditonals, and all the goodies* I understand now how hard it is to tell someone how to program over the internet, what program language to use, and why, the reason behind learning the language, and then finally stepping into making small, rather mindless games...

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Just to screw with your head some more...

RAD doesn't mean "not for games". Indeed, Macrome-- uh, Adobe Flash is a RAD tool, and is probably responsible for more successful indie games in recent history than any other language. VB 6.0 is wrong for game development--and for development in general--because it is OLD, not because it's a RAD tool.

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Oh yeah I'm not knocking RAD tools - I agree with you entirely. But if I LEARN using any type of RAD tool - I'll be put off in the long run when I try to learn more, detailed tools that take longer to accomplish tasks, such as C++. (Not saying C++ is slower by any means - just stating that with a RAD tool anyone could pump out a game alot faster... from what I've learned thus far.)

Along with that I've taken in to account I could make simple Flash games using actionscripts - but the overhead is insane, which answers one of my first questions that I had when stepping into programming... "Why do flash games run like crap?"

RAD tools are great for displaying future intents for a game I guess - a demo making so to speak... but thats just coming from a noob. :D STOP MESSING WITH MY HEAD! DAMN YOU!

Peace. :)

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Quote:
But if I LEARN using any type of RAD tool - I'll be put off in the long run when I try to learn more, detailed tools that take longer to accomplish tasks, such as C++.


On the other hand, using a RAD tool might help you produce a nice game a whole lot faster. A lot of people (myself included) take forever to actually create a working and finished game, while spending ages on trying different techniques and programming away at samples and demos. What takes your priority is obviously up to you, but it's something to consider. The best example here is the GameDev 4e4 competition where a GameMaker game skooled us all [smile]

Quote:
Either way I wanted to openly say SORRY to the forum for being the every-day JOE that wants to make a game.


Don't be sorry! That's how most of us ended up here too, before we got lost on the treacherous paths of elegant code, mad lighting techniques and dubious physics simulations anyway [wink] Go with what you like and what you can handle, just remember that coding isn't the only path that'll let you make your game.


Quote:
STOP MESSING WITH MY HEAD! DAMN YOU!


Hope I made a nice contribution to that as well [grin]

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VB6 is outstanding for prototyping and developing small apps. It will always be so, no matter how old it gets (until a future version of Windows no longer runs it). It has one of the best IDE's in the world and was the first MS IDE with IntelliSense, allows you to run software without compiling (indispensable for rapid prototyping), and offers a wide array of built-in functionality in the VB run-time libraries. In fact, VB/VBA/VBRUN provided the spiritual basis for .NET, which dreadfully amuses me, a long-time VB programmer. That alone is a tribute to its influence. At one point, VB6 was also the most-used language on the planet for application programming. Up until very recently, I had VB6 installed on a Virtual PC for prototyping. Finally gave up on it; maintenance was a pain.

But programming isn't about what languages you know. Any language will get the job done; it's simply a matter of how you approach the solution, though some languages do make certain solutions easier (e.g., garbage collection, inheritance, typeless variables). No, the programmer's challenge is one of design: visualizing your project in its completed state, identifying crucial components, analyzing how they work together (i.e., interfaces, the heart of modular programming), designing and developing each component individually, putting them together, and troubleshooting the whole mess. Programming is about drawing diagrams and schematics and flowcharts and solving logic problems and writing design documents and lots and lots and lots of foresight and planning. And patience.

It really has nothing to do with language, and any seasoned programmer will tell you that all languages have several things in common. You can use that knowledge to improve the rate at which you learn new languages. When I named my identifiers in VB6, I would prefix Singles with an "f" for "float" because I was used to working with C/C++ modules. Language didn't matter; it was all the same to me. VB6 was wonderful for developing GUI's and basic logic, but all my time-critical stuff was written in C and ASM. Yes, I developed a game with VB6, and it worked out fine. No, I will not do it again.

Your language of choice will ideally be based on whatever you feel comfortable using, but in a business sense you'll want to go with what's popular, and C++ is the obvious choice . . . though C# is making some noise lately. In fact, that's my next objective. To hell with C++. You can download any version of Visual Studio Express, including VC#, for free, probably the best PR move Microsoft ever made. Granted, it's rooted in .NET, which wasn't exactly built for performance, but I'm gradually wrapping my mind around that sacrifice as I discover what it can do . . . which is pretty much anything.

I've been a member here for over seven years and I still don't consider myself anymore an expert than I was when I signed up. I'm just ignorant in different ways.

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^Tom, you are totally right!
I 99% agree to everything you said.

except for 1 thing,
the "Free download of Visual Studio Express" part..
Do you know why its a free version?
I have used it.. (for no longer then 3 days)
why?
It has TO MUCH limitations..
You cant compile 1 souce downloaded from the net,
like a tutorial, unless it says that its build with the express edition

I have the professional version now.
and can do EVERYTHING i want.
Working on 3d engine now using c# and directx. :-)

Kind regards
Sven

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Quote:
Original post by djnevs
You cant compile 1 souce downloaded from the net,
like a tutorial, unless it says that its build with the express edition

Say what? of course you can.

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Ok guys - I wanted to just atleast give a update, figure maybe if some of the other noobs are reading this it will help slap them on track (or if I'm off track, it will help them get off track with me... eww, hopefully I'm doing well.)

I got afew books, and I've even banged my head into them afew times... but I don't mind some of the frustration that comes with learning C++ so far...

I made my way past all 477 pages of the "Larry Ullman & Andreas Signer C++ Programming" (a quick start book as its called) has nothing to do with game programming, which in some sad sense I'm bum'd about... but I know one day I'll be writing code and understanding it - rather then copying - pasting and changing someone elses code! I started my second book today - "Beginning C++ Game Programming", and its pretty much the same thing as the quickstart first book as far, but in relation to game programming using C++...

After this book I think I'm going to check into one of them thick primer books - that is if I'm still not comfortable with C++, reading over one quickstart book was a nice start, but I didn't pretain all that I hoped I would.

I understand (or atleast I think I do) simple data types, functions, classes, methods, attributes, all of the simple things... (as odd as this sounds) I ALMOST understood addresses, pointers, and arrays... but the idea quickly left my brain... -.- I'm even poping my head into the noob forums section everyday, checking problems that others are having, and sometimes I myself can offer a solution in my head (although I don't reply to them because I don't want to give inaccurate or just plain wrong information)

I haven't written any of my own code really yet, and I'm using all of the books source to just try and remember simple things like loops.

I'm using MS C++ Express, and sometimes a old version of Dev-C++(4.-something something) to help stick with the book examples.

Starting to understand how to debug and find typos and errors at which were my fault...

I understand slightly what OOP is, but don't ask me the three parts that make up OOP because I wouldn't be able to tell you off hand (I could get my books out and find it though! harharhar!)

Either way thats my rather small update... oh yeah I got bored and wanted to mess with DirectX9, and Windows APIs, so I did... I didn't understand much of what was going on (although I was able to draw things to the screen, yadda yadda, I didn't really understand what was happenin' half the time) so I ran back to my regular C++ books...

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