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Siegfried

Why ur all going so wrong (revised)

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From reading your postings I can tell that you have gone completely wrong in your ideas. One word to remember is AGE: Atmosphere Gamplay Enthusiasm The firs two words pretty much speak for themselves however the enthusiasm factor is rarely appreciated. For example my favourite game is hidden and dangerous, this is because I have a strong enthusiasm for WW2 games because I am interested in this period. Even if someone is not interrested in WW2 they can easily pick up the game and familiarise themselves with the situation. Fantasy RPGs have the fatal flaw that no-one can actually be interrested in the world you have created because they are completely unfamiliar with it, however if a gamer is instantly familiar with the idea of the game then the game must be a cliche! This is why i suggest to all who are thinking of making a game, to make agame themed in the past; for example the game I am working on is a FPS set in europe in about 1200AD where you fight as a hired mercenary with swords, bows horses ect. Missions include sabotage, assasinations and the rest. Now go forth and recreate the past so we can move forward!

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I do not agree with your statement that no one can be familiar with or interested in a fantasy world. There are numerous authors of books and movies (especially books) that create a fantasy world that is so well described and so connected to real aspects of life that to the reader/viewer the world becomes real and familiar. The imagery used and events that occur combined with the reader/viewer''s imagination brings the world to life. The same is possible with a well made RPG. The storyline, depth of character, and choices and interactions between the player and characters allows the player to become imersed in the world. This is possible with any RPG, not just the fantasy sub-genre, the important thing is that the storyline makes sense (ie. motives are given for actions, characters respond appropriately to emotions, and the sequence of events flows and is not disjointed.) I have no problem with an RPG set in the real past, I just think that a fantasy world is also fully capable of becoming familiar and real to a player with good presentation and appeal to the players imagination.

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I disagree also

The only thing that counts is internal consistency. Game players (people nowadays in general) are used to a wide field of ideas... thats why people enjoy scifi movies, just as well as fantasy films....

in fact, if you go for a "historical" setting creating an environment that´s right is a lot harder, as you don´t only have to take care of the internal rules, you also have to make it historically accurate.

Have you actually checked you history? Were there mercenaries in 1200? If yes, what did they really do? When was the longbow invented? Are they going to speak old high german? ... lots of questions...

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I disagree too. The thing is i love fantasy worlds because they give you the feeling of something fresh. What i mean by that is that its different from the real world. I think that whole point of a fantasy world is to change the rules around, remember that if you are making a wwii sim then you really cant change much but if your making a rpg that takes place in a fantasy world anything can go. Personally i love both real and fantasy in games as long as they are used correctly.

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Um, Siegfried (can I call you Sieggy? *just kidding* )

By what would you attribute the *HUGE* success of...

AD&D

or

Star Trek

or

any number of a hundred different books, games, and movies that aren''t set in a known, familiar universe????

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

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This is dangerously close to flamebait, so be careful. I''m leaving it open for now, but keep it a civil discussion.



People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
Mad Keith the V.

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I see from your many dissagreements that I have have not stated enough. For a start Wavinator: I am not talking about commercial success I am refering to the quality of games. For example the biggest selling game in Britain currently is "Who wants to be a millionair?" now this game is hardly anything remotely special, however it has sold like hot cakes .
As for Hase''s comments: yes I have resurched deeply into 13th century european history and I have thought about all of the historical gaming aspects, and yes there will be old english and german

Hoside,
quote:
The thing is i love fantasy worlds because they give you the feeling of something fresh

Now Hoside may fing stagnant water delicious however I dont, what I mean is do you really fing wizzards, orks, elves, magic ect. "fresh"? I certainly dont.

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Sorry Seigfreid but I must also refute your proposal. Put simply your comment that "Fantasy RPGs have the fatal flaw that no-one can actually be interrested in the world you have created because they are completely unfamiliar with it" simply has no basis in fact. If anything "discovering" a new workd is what actually attracts people.

There are VAST amounts of succesful game, literature, film and TV entertainment that are based in fantasy enviroments (either mythical or SCi-Fi). The hoards of Star Trek, Star Wars and soon to be Lord of the Rings fans totally disprove your thesis.

Simply quoting a single example of a game which is not based in a mythical environment (Millionaire) does not prove your theory. All it proves is that people like games based on popular TV quizes AS WELL as liking games based in fantasy environemnts. - Mario games, Ocarina of Time, Star Wars games, Doom, Quake, Half Life, UT, Ultima...... the list is huge.

Dan Marchant
Obscure Productions

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I also disagree,

My favorite game of all time is Jedi Knight, based on a universe that im not completley familar with.

But, it''s my favorite game because in my opinion it''s got one of the most involving storylines in a game I''VE ever played (plus the added bonus of playing with a Light Sabre Hehe), another game i feel is a good example of a good story is Red Alert.

Anyway, what im sayin'' is, taht in my opinion the factors which make a GREAT game are gameplay and story line.

-Nuffsaid

Wossanme wossname wossname

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I think I see what you''re saying, Siegfried.

If you want a game to appeal to the masses, it should be something they can immediately relate to, and should probably have a non-violent theme.

I disagree that Hidden and Dangerous is any more engaging to the masses than Final Fantasy VII. I can no more relate to WW2 than I can with casting a magic spell, since I''ve never been in war.

What I can relate to is getting up, going to work, coming home, buying stuff...ah, The Sims. I''ve also been to quiet a few amusement parks ( Rollercoaster Tycoon ).

I like violent games as much as the next guy, but Joe Q. Public doesn''t like the idea of "killing" and "being killed." Building an amusement park doesn''t carry the same type of stress. Same goes with The Sims.

Ut

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