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Legalese, using the "Sign contract with development studio." API (though you have to pay to use it, obviously).

If you insist on doing it yourself, on your own, using a language you already possibly know is better than learning a new language for the task. Almost any language will allow you to program a simple and small MMORPG, and industry MMORPGs are indeed written in a variety of different languages. I know some written in PHP, C#, C, C++ and Python (to name just a few).

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you will get far too many different answers for this question

id say c++ but thats purely because i like c++

but simple answer is any language will be sutible, some use python, java, infact im sure ull find mmos in all languages

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Original post by ToohrVyk
Legalese, using the "Sign contract with development studio." API (though you have to pay to use it, obviously).

If you insist on doing it yourself, on your own, using a language you already possibly know is better than learning a new language for the task. Almost any language will allow you to program a simple and small MMORPG, and industry MMORPGs are indeed written in a variety of different languages.


What were you saying orginally about Lagelese?

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Original post by syncer
What were you saying orginally about Lagelese?


Legalese is the english-like language used by lawyers when writing licenses, contracts and threat letters. If you wish to establish a contract to have a development studio write an MMORPG for you, then that contract will be written in legalese.

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Alright here is the thing. I know it takes a lot of work and money to do MMORPG's. But I was wondering say I decide to start small and build up would that work? Secondly if I decide to use a specific language could I change it later on in the game?

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Original post by syncer
But I was wondering say I decide to start small and build up would that work?


Yes, but it would still take a lot of work (not necessarily money, as bandwidth costs don't factor in as long as you remain small).

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Secondly if I decide to use a specific language could I change it later on in the game?


You can always change to a new language.

Obviously, this will require rewriting large portions of the game. However, even if you don't change to a new language, you will still have to rewrite large portions of the game, so it's largely irrelevant.

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Two last questions.

What would be the projected time to get something like this from development to beta testing? And is it possible to do an MMORPG opensource? Since I would not be doing this through a studio?

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No one can reasonably answer that question without you elaborating a lot on your development plans. I.e. size of the workforce... size of the project...

Just as an idea, if you weren't already aware - most 3D PC MMORPGs take a team of 50+ developers (programmers, artists, designers), several years to complete.

For 1 programmer to develop a MMORPG of similar ambitions by himself would take, at best close to a decade?

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Original post by syncer
What would be the projected time to get something like this from development to beta testing?


Somewhere between "six months" (for a PHP/javascript browser-based simple MMORPG) to "never" (for a World of Warcraft/Everquest/Eve Online/Ragnarok Online competitor).

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And is it possible to do an MMORPG opensource?


Yes, it is. It's your code, you do whatever you want with it.

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Well I was talking about a team of about 5 developers plus adding more as it goes along. Say for instance I started with about five developers and started the MMORPG with just one location i.e a lounge, condo etc. Along with a couple of things to buy etc. As you said it would be almost impossible to tell for sure but could I be looking at something less then half a decade?

BTW I was talking about using the programing language C, C++ ETC.

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No. You have the wrong ideal about how development effort scales and what "starting small and working your way up" means.

The number of locations you can be in in the MMO has very little actual impact on the effort involved in developing the game -- a well-designed and developed game will be data driven, and adding some new areas would be little more than building them in your level editor, connecting their entrance portals to the exit portals of existing zones, and pushing the content to your live server. You might need to scale up bandwidth costs at that point, since more zones generally implies more players (assuming a fixed maximum per zone), which generally means more network traffic.

However, in practice is it quite out impossible for homegrown hobby "MMOs" to actually achieve that first "M" (massive generally means thousands of players, you will likely never get that kind of popularity because you lack the marketing push and you can't compete with the big boys), so network scalability rarely becomes a problem, although writing code to handle it is one of the challenges.

Furthermore, if you're in the position to ask about "the best language" to write an MMO in, you're not in a position to lead a team of developers, period. It doesn't matter how many.

So if you want get to a point where you might actually have a shot at making a small, persistent-world online game (not a hugely impossible task), you should start by selecting a good language for somebody in your position -- C# would probably be my recommendation here -- and learning to use it to make some very simple games. Start with tic-tac-toe and other text-based games, then move on to using graphics APIs, and then move on to networking, and so on. Spend a few months honing your skills and getting some projects under your belt -- your belt, forget about a team -- and then revisit the idea of an "MMO" at a later date.

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Original post by syncer
Two last questions.

What would be the projected time to get something like this from development to beta testing? And is it possible to do an MMORPG opensource? Since I would not be doing this through a studio?


For an absolute pro, with a team of 3 (super coder, artist, manager+everything else), it has been proven to be doable in one year. Alas, I forgot the title of that game.

For a typical hobbyist team, 4-infinite years.

For a studio with usual team size (30-50), 3-never years. (never here happens when studio runs out of money).

For an established game development company, 2-4 years.

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However, in practice is it quite out impossible for homegrown hobby "MMOs" to actually achieve that first "M" (massive generally means thousands of players, you will likely never get that kind of popularity because you lack the marketing push and you can't compete with the big boys), so network scalability rarely becomes a problem, although writing code to handle it is one of the challenges.


AAA 3D MMORPG - yes. MMO - no.

Some of the big hits in MMO market in recent years came from individual developers who made a fun game.

But they are not the games people label with MMORPG, although they often fit the formal description. But it doesn't mean they don't support hundreds of thousands, or even millions of users.

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What is the best car to go shopping in? WHo knows. I use c++ but then I'm not writing an MMO anything, I'm writing a 3rd person shooter.

Write a top down RPG and do it in python. If your ready for writing an MMORPG then surely you will finish a top down RPG in a few days.

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You could start a team without advanced knowledge in C++. i do have basic knowledge in the area and its expanding so if I were to put a team togather I think I might be able to pull it off on an MMO not MMORPG.

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I assure you our problem isn't with the "RPG" part of "MMORPG". You're utterly delusional if you think you can build a large-scale system capable of supporting thousands of users with newbie programming talent and a strewn-together Internet team.

jpetrie is completely right here; go back and read what he said instead of blowing him off and looking for help on learning "C+".

Perhaps it would be possible for you to instead write a simple multiplayer game that supports 4-8 players.

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Original post by Ravuya
I assure you our problem isn't with the "RPG" part of "MMORPG". You're utterly delusional if you think you can build a large-scale system capable of supporting thousands of users with newbie programming talent and a strewn-together Internet team.

jpetrie is completely right here; go back and read what he said instead of blowing him off and looking for help on learning "C+".

Perhaps it would be possible for you to instead write a simple multiplayer game that supports 4-8 players.


Maybe you misunderstood my quote. I'm not about to try and pull of an MMORPG becasue as jpetrie rightly said it would be impossible but if I did something like what you said a small RPG I could pull it off.

So I am asking if I decided to try an RPG starting with less then 50 playes would that be possible?

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So I am asking if I decided to try an RPG starting with less then 50 playes would that be possible?

No, you're still looking at scalability the wrong way again. It's not about the number of players; that doesn't contribute to the difficulty nearly as much as the baseline tech does (relative to your apparent experience level).

Have you made tic-tac-toe? Have you made a Tetris clone? Unless the answer to both of these is "yes," you need to be able to do that first before you give any consideration to multiplayer RPGs. And if you have made both of them, I have plenty of other suggestions for projects you could work on to further refine your skills to the point where you can tackle multiplayer stuff.

But frankly, you're asking impossible questions. Whether or not you can pull off any kind of game at all is not something we can tell you; we don't know nearly enough about you or your skillset, we have only the impressions we get from your post.

Go download Visual C# Express from Microsoft's website, and poke around in the C# Workshop on this forum or in the C# learning materials on Microsoft's website, and start learning to program. Start doing something, instead of fidgiting and biting your nails and nervously glancing left and right, shifting your weight around in agitation like a small child who needs to go and can't seem to find a bathroom. It's not productive.

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I have downloaded C++ and been using for some time now. My problem is not learning it. I am wondering if I should decide to learn a whole new programming code for something that might not be successful.

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C++ is a language, not a computer program. How long is "some time?" Weeks? Months? Years?

You still haven't answer my questions -- what sort of games have you written already? What sort of programs of any kind have you written? If none, you probably haven't been using C++ long enough to amount to much, and you should abandon it in favor of a language like C# (or Python), which is more suited to a beginner and will allow you to be much more productive.

If you have used the language for a long time, know it fairly well, and have written some interesting and nontrivial programs with it, it does not warrant learning a new language neccessarily -- if you are comfortable enough with the tools you know, use them. The point, again, is that you go do something instead of worrying if what you are doing is "okay" or not.

I ask again, what sorts of programs have you written already?

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I have just started using it and I am in the process of creating my first program which happens not to be a game.

The reason I asked the question is I have an idea for a game which is something more then an RPG or MORPG. But I was wondering what sort of language I would need to know in order to be able to try this in the future. I do not think I could be able to tackle a project so big at my level of experience but if I decide to sit down and learn a language in a year or so I would be ready to start.

I think you misunderstood my first question. Its not about starting a game now. Its finding the correct language so I would not have to learn another one in the future when I decide to undertake this project.

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I have downloaded C++ and been using for some time now. My problem is not learning it. I am wondering if I should decide to learn a whole new programming code for something that might not be successful.


These are probably issues that most people have already touched, but here's my opinion, language is not the important issue here. You can learn any modern language (C, C++, VB, C#, Java) and make a MMORPG. Your success does not depend on the language, it depends on your dedication, how much you're willing to learn, how much hours you're willing to put in, do you have dedicated artists and musicians, do you have the time and money to run test servers, website, and community-related sections such as forums.

Do you have the time to make a MMORPG is one of the biggest issues here. I believe humans are great at doing anything, give them enough time and the right tools. I'll say, yes, it's possible for you to make a MMORPG, but if you're attending school, work, church, other social events... how much time can you put into this game? It's likely you will not find a lot of help, because anyone with the skills to work on a MMORPG, is probably going to request money, or see additional work from you before he/she volunteers.

This is just my opinion, I would start with a simple language myself. C++ is great if you need the performance, but keep in mind there are really good FREE MMORPGS out there, so with that said, unless you plan to compete with commercial quality, do not expect to be running a server with 1,000 players anytime soon.

You could always do this: If you find that your game becomes popular, and that performance of the server is an issue, you can run as many copies of the server as you want. Many MMORPGs have already incorporated this idea.

I hope this helps, and if you haven't made even a simple game yet, you should really try it out, because MMORPG is a huge commitment, and there's no reason to set yourself up for failure... which is precisely what you'll be doing, if you can't complete normal-size games yet.

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Original post by syncer
Its not about starting a game now. Its finding the correct language so I would not have to learn another one in the future when I decide to undertake this project.
An experienced, established programmer - the kind of level I'd say one needs to be at before they even think about starting to write an MMO - will know several languages anyway. Different languages are suited to different situations; you might use multiple languages on a single project (hint: EVE Online does this).

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