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RPG/VideoGame Designers challenge

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If you are as good as a designer as you say you are then Design a fantasy rpg and execute it to mass market using one of these subject matter. If you''re the shit this should be easy. You don''t have to participate, but non participation speaks about your skills, the first to be successful will be congragulated and deemed one of the greatest rpg designers of all time, and an award will be presented, by the now forming rpg designers alliance, and Im talking about making this work mass market folks (console, or PC) Cultures not based on Euro fantasy examples include Aztec Mayan Incan Egyptian Japanese Chinese Native American Ocean based only (Mermaids/Mermen) Or any other African Culture or other Asian Culture (Tibetan?) Not allowed: typical dragons, dwarves, knights, elves, trolls, ogres, or any other races familar to tolkien or D&D

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Heh. Cheeky.

Check out Earnest Adam''s challenge that''s along similar lines.

Now, sir, I shall reverse your challenge: Anything you design for the mass market obviously has to take their desires to heart. Do you really think that it''s an accident that most cRPGs are medieval?

Dungeons & Dragons holds great sway not only on leagues of cRPG designers and would be designers, but also on the players.

A perfect example: Fallout vs. Baldur''s Gate. Fallout was an excellent cRPG, but failed to substantially help Interplay''s bottom line. BG came out, and hordes of D&D fanatics jumped on it because they adore the Tolkein universe and will (by and large) accept nothing else.

There are players out there who''ll play non-medieval RPGs, but they I believe are not in the majority.

(btw, I come at this from trying to design a science fiction cRPG, which seems to be as rare as cool, refreshing ice water in hell. )

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

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How strict are we talking here?

Is the point to avoid typical cookie-cutter fantasy (d&d and countless others) or Europe itself? I''ve made arguments before for a fantasized Emperial England setting (Jules Verne, Arthur Conan Doyle, Space 1889, etc). What about other European settings, with more attention paid to historical mythology instead of the d&d mythos (Norwegian trolls, not the lame Tolkien version). Wanna play a Pict? (Actually would probably be cool. immediate ''M'' rating though... Definite lack of clothing - might sell for that reason alone ) Bathing in milk & blood to heal wounds...

So, for clarification: No Euro-fantasy or no d&d/Tolkien/generic-fantasy?

pwd

---
What makes you think I''m not going to like a goatse pic on my window? - nes8bit



E.A.R.E. To keep your children away from elephants!

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I have to agree with Wavinator. If the RPG is going to be fantasy, then something that clips the edges of D&D is, really, necessary, in order to appeal to the mass market.

Also, I''d have to disagree with AngelStar''s strict classification. If you want to make something truly different then blend Aztec with Mayan. Blend Egyptian with Japanese.

Its a fantasy RPG, not a historical simulator. Mix and match ideas. My own current project has, quite shamelessly, nicked creatures from the mythology of just about every culture in the world (and then some).



Virtual Worldlets, the home of online worlds

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"Blend Egyptian with Japanese."

How about Chinese? According to Hong Kong action films, it''s a known fact that all ancient Egyptians speak Cantonese. :-)
--
TAZ

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Guest Anonymous Poster
[ Flame Bait ]

Edited by - MadKeithV on April 26, 2001 3:18:49 AM

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There is some great mythology behind the Celtic people from Scotland and Ireland that has never really been used in many games, some of the stories of ancient monsters that roamed the higlands were pretty cool.

-F

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I have a little bit of Celtic Mythology in it too coz of a lot of Katherine Kerr novels and recently Traci Hardings (Australian Author) ''Ancient Future'' trilogy got me thinking. I am thinking of reading up on Taliesin (Sp?) now... He sounds like a pretty funky guy

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

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Two comments (just cause):

Picts wore clothing. They were originally from gaul, and were pushed out first by the celtics, then they banded to gether with the celts to fight the romans (against julius cesear. They lost so sailed north). without going into that even more...

Celts are not originally from Scotland and Ireland...they swept west across Europe, and only went up to the british isles after being pushed out by the romans...

But besides that - we are trying to come up with an RPG along similar lines. I mean rather, by not doing the tried and true approach of a fantasy game based on Medieval Europe...

We are still brainstorming at this point. Though, we keep ending up looking at the ancient mythos of different cultures...since that happens to be my speciality (not to mention one of our writers is defending his Doctorate Thesis on the Influence of Folklore on 20th century fiction...)

la la.

Justin Greywolf
Lostware Entertainment

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A great RPG does not necessarily have to not be midieval. I feel that the most important part of a good RPG is how immersive it is. Not where or what it is. You could make a game about the Blowhole McGee tribe of the lost cntinent of Acromeglia, but if you don''t have GOOD interaction and a GOOD storyline, then it''s a shitty game. So folks, in closing, I would like to say that you can make a good game without breaking away from mainstream society.

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Personally I''d like to see a really good futuristic RPG. Fallout games were fun but to many ruins, I like a a dirty futuristic city with steam shooting up through the vents on the street and a dark atmosphere. It would be a breath of fresh air for a change I think(that''s something of an oxymoron isn''t it?). Just had to say that, in case someone''s looking for ideas.

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quote:
Original post by TechnoHydra

Personally I''d like to see a really good futuristic RPG. Fallout games were fun but to many ruins, I like a a dirty futuristic city with steam shooting up through the vents on the street and a dark atmosphere. It would be a breath of fresh air for a change I think(that''s something of an oxymoron isn''t it?). Just had to say that, in case someone''s looking for ideas.


It wouldn''t be all that original though, cyberpunk has been done to death, maybe not by RPGs but by other genres of game and especially by the movie industry. Don''t get me wrong, I love that setting too, but it''d be cool to come up with a setting that has hardly been touched upon. Then again, we could do with a few more cyberpunk RPGs, Anyone remember Shadowrun? That was cool RPG. It also had a pretty inovative communication system too.



- Kaijin

"The student who is never required to do what he cannot do never does what he can do." - John Stuart Mill

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I spose you could include Fallout in that category too - another cool RPG. Maybe ditching typical fantasy instantly makes your RPG better

I really liked the Planescape setting from AD&D, while still a variation on fantasy it wasn''t straight typical fantasy and introduced some cool and original ideas.

- Kaijin

"The student who is never required to do what he cannot do never does what he can do." - John Stuart Mill

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Hey, Wav, thanks for pointing out the Ernest Adams article. You saved me some trouble there.

For anyone who hasn''t seen that article, perhaps I could help you find it. It''s at http://www.gamasutra.com. Gamasutra is really targetted at industry professionals. But the articles are pretty interesting. Ernest Adams has a regular column about game design.

Once you''re at the Gamasutra site, you can find the article as follows: At the top of the page is a link to "Features". Click there, and go to "Game Design". A little way down the page, on the left hand side is a link called "Regular Columns", or something like that. From there you go to a column called "The Designer''s Notebook". That''s Mr. Adams''s column.

I would have provided a direct link, but if you''re not a member of Gamasutra, you might not be able to follow such a link.



Jonathon
quote:
"Mathematics are one of the fundamentaries of educationalizing our youths." -George W. Bush

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Now that everyone can find the article (hopefully,) I''d like to give a very brief description of what the article covers.

The article claims that designers are often so impressed with new technologies, and so eager to take advantage of them, that they fail to pay enough attention to the more critical aspects of good game design. This includes gameplay.

The article also points out the incredible similarity between many commercial games. If game designers do not pay careful attention, and fail to think creatively, the game industry suffers.

This relates very directly to this discussion. There are already many posts which mention possible game designs. I do not wish to insult anyone. And I think that some of these game ideas have good potential.

But I find it interesting that of all the game ideas mentioned, there is not one which I cannot easily understand. So far, there are no ideas suggested which are so unique, so unusual, that I need to ask about them.

If one of these ideas was truly revolutionary, I would be asking something like "Wow. That''s really different. How would you make that into a game? What would the gameplay be like? Could this even work as a game?"

Instead, I find myself thinking "Hmm. Yeah, that might be interesting."

I don''t mean to suggest that any of these ideas are bad, or that they could not become compelling games. I just mean that they seem very similar to what''s already commercially available.

Whether an RPG is based on Scots or Amazons will certainly have an impact on what the game will be like. But by classifying it as an RPG from the beginning, aren''t we limiting ourselves?

I would like to see some more radical ideas. How about something so new and exciting, that people have to really think in order to grasp the concept?

And don''t worry. I''m wracking my braing trying to come up with something myself. Good luck to us!


Jonathon
quote:
"Mathematics are one of the fundamentaries of educationalizing our youths." -George W. Bush

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Jonathon, I''m a little confused. No real game ideas have been expressed here, just suggestion for RPG settings.

The other thing is that the large majority of people that post on this forum have a deep interest and love of RPGs and that is the genere that they wish to improve. It''s not that anyone lacks creativity, it''s just that most are more interested in improving a genre they love than coming up with a completely new one. I think you will find a that a lot of the ideas that have been expressed on this forum are pretty damn original although constrained RPGs. I know this is the Game Design forum but RPG forum would probably be a more accurate name

- Kaijin

"The student who is never required to do what he cannot do never does what he can do." - John Stuart Mill

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quote:
Original post by Kaijin

Jonathon, I''m a little confused. No real game ideas have been expressed here, just suggestion for RPG settings.

The other thing is that the large majority of people that post on this forum have a deep interest and love of RPGs and that is the genere that they wish to improve. It''s not that anyone lacks creativity, it''s just that most are more interested in improving a genre they love than coming up with a completely new one. I think you will find a that a lot of the ideas that have been expressed on this forum are pretty damn original although constrained RPGs....



I guess I didn''t express myself clearly in that last post.

I didn''t mean to suggest that any of the posts in this thread lack potential or creativity. My intention was to suggest that game designers might be able to create some profound, new genres by thinking in more radical, unexplored directions.

I recently read an interview with Sid Meier. His general approach to creating games is first to come up with the game''s subject matter. Only after this step does he attempt to choose an appropriate genre. This is because by choosing a genre first, a designer is already limiting himself to certain possibilities.

I like some of the settings mentioned in this thread. And as I mentioned in my last post, I think that they might very well lead to compelling, enjoyable games.

Kaijin, you mention that many of the participants in this forum love RPGs. That is not surprising. As an artistic medium, the RPG allows designers and artists more creative potential than any medium since the novel. (Yes, even greater than cinema.) And I love RPGs myself.

But I still think that it would be good for game designers to think in more unusual terms.

Thinking back to some of the greatest games, many of them have one thing in common. They all require explanation.

Could someone really understand Centipede as simply a "bug shooter"? Or Pokemon as a "collection" game? Now, perhaps. But when they first turned up, the gameplay was so different, so unusual, that it had to be explained.

That was the point of my post. Not that any thoughts expressed in this thread were poor ideas, or that they would necessarily be of a derivative nature.

Perhaps this should have more properly been posted as a separate thread. But I believe strongly that in order for the computer game, and even the RPG to evolve, designers must always try to think creatively. The RPG has not reached even a fraction of its potential as an artistic medium. And unless game designers make an effort to explore that potential, the arrival of what the RPG could be will be long delayed.


Jonathon
quote:
"Mathematics are one of the fundamentaries of educationalizing our youths." -George W. Bush

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Actually, since I''ve already stuck my neck out, I may as well continue.

Even within the RPG genre, there is a great deal of room for creative new improvements. Surely not all possible forms of gameplay have been explored. What about character interaction with the player. Has this been fully explored? New combat systems are always being implemented. These areas, as well as many others, provide a great deal of opportunity for improvements to the RPG.

So even within a favorite genre, I believe there is potential for a good deal of innovation.

Also, I would like to apologize if my earlier posts in this thread offended anybody. It was not my intention to be critical of anyone''s ideas or abilities. I was simply trying to offer suggestions as to how games can be improved. And that, after all, is the point of this forum.


Jonathon
quote:
"Mathematics are one of the fundamentaries of educationalizing our youths." -George W. Bush

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There is a huge market for games like The Sims, and I am sure that it would be possible to make an RPG in this kind of setting. Think Jerry Springer.. think Elvis Impersonators etc..

But would the market who buy the Sims be put off by the gaming demands of RPGs? Do they just buy these things for cool interactive toys? Would a "Sims RPG" sell well if it was made to be really ACCESSIBLE?



Edited by - Ketchaval on May 1, 2001 8:23:26 PM

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Jonathon, I don''t think any offense was taken.

I agree, there''s still a lot of room for improvement in RPGs. A LOT. But was I was also saying is that IS what most of the discusion on this forum is about - how to improve RPGs. Just take a lot at some of the previous posts and you will see a huge amount of post dedicated to discussing and improving all kinds of areas within RPGs, a lot of which are full of some very interesting ideas.

I definately agree about choose the subject before the genre. But times it can''t be helped, some ideas just fit certain genres. But there''s no reason RPGs can''t be stretched into other genres such as action or stategy. The term RPG has become synonymous with statistics, levels and dice, which is a shame because they can be SO much more. CRPGs have evolved from pen and paper RPGs but the only thing that has made the transition is the dice rolls and stats, leaving the role playing behind which is actually where the fun of playing them came from. The only reason that P&P RPGs used dice rolls and stats is that it was the only way to introduce randomness and variety and a basis for the gameplay. Computer games however offer better gameplay mechanisms so why aren''t they being taken advantage of? There''s no excuse of still using random methods that are effectively equivelent to rolling dice, surely there''s got to be a better way? But that''s another topic

- Kaijin

"The student who is never required to do what he cannot do never does what he can do." - John Stuart Mill

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Kaijin, that''s a very important point you bring up. The role-playing was the most important, most enjoyable part of RPGs. In fact, some of my old RPGs didn''t use dice at all. (But that''s a different story.)

That in itself could make for a very interesting thread.


Jonathon
quote:
"Mathematics are one of the fundamentaries of educationalizing our youths." -George W. Bush

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why not start a thread then?
i''d love to see it discussed

increasing roleplaying in cRPG''s would be quite hard technically.(have an ide how it could be done)
exept multiplayer, and still there its difficult to encurage it..

-NutFruit

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Great, this is shaping up to be good. One rpg that I am currently
working to submit to the Gamecube (its for kids) on is about a nutball professor and his assistant who nicronize themselves and end up flea sized on the professor''s dog. With the abilities to talk to the insects that inhabit this "new world" Hows that for different?

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