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maruk

Looking for a game with dialog gameplay

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maruk    122
I'm looking for old games or crpgs that offer good dialog gameplay to study it. It doesn't have to be an rpg or a recent game, but being an rpg that uses speech skills would be more close to what i'm trying to do. Any help with a link to the game site you suggest would be much appreciated.

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Trillian    410
This post might help you...






...seriously, do not double-post. It is not allowed on these forums. Pick the "Writing for Games" or "Game Design" forum and post there. A moderator willl most likely delete the other post.

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maruk    122
"...seriously, do not double-post. It is not allowed on these forums. "

Sorry about that. I have deleted the other thread.

"Fallout
Fallout 2
Planescape: Torment
Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura"

I have some difficulties to consider these games as games with dialog gameplay. What kind of game do you play during dialog, whats the challenge and prize, how can you fail, how can you recover from your failures, how do we know we are wining, how do we know we have won and what personal skill does it requires to accomplish our objectives in a dialog game?

Combat for example is easy to understand as being a game. Our objective is to end the battle, kill our enemies and get their loot. It's easy to know when we are winning or loosing. It requires reflexes and perhaps some sense strategy to win.

That's the kind properties i'm looking for in dialog gameplay. Not the same objectives as combat of course.

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drakostar    224
Wait...what? The traditional course of things is to have character skills, etc. influence dialog options, which the cited examples do quite well (though I can't remember Arcanum in detail).

What exactly are you looking for? Something like Oblivion's horrendous persuasion minigame, only not so pointless? Because I don't think I've ever played any other game with some kind of dialog minigame.

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ArtyP    122
check out Storytron by Chris Crawford. It's in its beta stage, but it's amazing none-the-less.
http://www.storytron.com/

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maruk the cited examples may contain combat elements and go here - do this style quests but, the significant factor is that the plot progression more or less hinges upon dialog in many cases.

You are "winning" the game when the dialog brings you closer to understanding what needs to be done to finish the game, you can lose if you piss off a character as the result of dialog gone wrong and either end up dead as the result of a battle you can't win or losing an important piece of leverage.

In fallout there is even a charisma skill which gives access to more courses of dialog which can open up more quests and bonuses.

The earliest game I can remember that used dialog to trigger events in a game was star control 2, which in between blasting through hyperspace and fighting mellee battles was pretty much entirely won through dialog. You could blast through hyperspace and fight as many battles as you want, but if you don't talk to people in the game, you will lose. You measure your progression towards victory by the changes in the conversations at various points in the game.

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, if not maybe if you explained a bit better... Is the game going to be entirely dialog based with nothing in between, for example?

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maruk    122
I don't doubt that any of these games are fun, deep and interesting. I played most of these games but something that is fun to read is not necessarily fun to play. It's the same with graphics. We can enjoy beautiful graphics in a game but graphics are static. I'm separating the different fun aspetcs in games and focusing only in gameplay.

My idea of what gameplay is comes from this book:
http://www.theoryoffun.com/

There's a very simple resume in the resources section that explains better the idea of gameplay:
http://www.theoryoffun.com/theoryoffun.pdf
http://www.theoryoffun.com/grammar/gdc2005.htm



"What exactly are you looking for? Something like Oblivion's horrendous persuasion minigame, only not so pointless? Because I don't think I've ever played any other game with some kind of dialog minigame."

Yes that's something like that and i agree Oblivion dialog mini-game was very bad.



"check out Storytron by Chris Crawford. It's in its beta stage, but it's amazing none-the-less.
http://www.storytron.com/"

Thanks, i'm going to have a look at it.



"You are "winning" the game when the dialog brings you closer to understanding what needs to be done to finish the game, you can lose if you piss off a character as the result of dialog gone wrong and either end up dead as the result of a battle you can't win or losing an important piece of leverage."

Dialog offers rewards but can also punish the player. That's one criteria.

"In fallout there is even a charisma skill which gives access to more courses of dialog which can open up more quests and bonuses."

That will bring more options to play with for characters with a good speech skill. It supports customization which is important in an crpg and may lead the player to follow it's natural way to solve problems.

However every game is supposed to challenge some sort of player skill. In combat it's reflexes and quick thinking. In TB combat games it's strategical thinking. What would be the player skills used in these case?

"The earliest game I can remember that used dialog to trigger events in a game was star control 2, which in between blasting through hyperspace and fighting mellee battles was pretty much entirely won through dialog. You could blast through hyperspace and fight as many battles as you want, but if you don't talk to people in the game, you will lose. You measure your progression towards victory by the changes in the conversations at various points in the game."

That would be an indication that being successful in dialog is crytical. I never played Star Control 2. Is any type of player skill required to "win" dialogs and how do you win them? Do you have objectives to achieve in dialog so that you know you have won?

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Thaumaturge    3826
I would very much recommend a look at Galatea (based around the eponymous character from Ancient Greek myth who began as a statue, but was granted life by one of the Ancient Greek pantheon).

I am not certain that it is exactly what you are looking for - there is no clear objective that you don't set, for example - but the conversation system is very impressive indeed, including mood and memory of previous topics. One course of words and actions can produce very different results, and the endings seem to be quite varied.

It's a game that very much impressed me, I'll admit.

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maruk    122
Thanks for the references. Any other games you guys remember to have playable dialog to some extent, be it a game of chances or one that uses some player skill for gameplay let me know. Thanks.

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