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Is turbo pascal being used for programming games and other not game related programs?

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The pascal language is the standard programming language here in Lithuania. I know that there are games written in Delphi, which is kind of simillar to pascal. However I don't see any potential in this language to be used in the computer industry. Can anyone say what is the situation with pascal language in the industry? I'm programming in C/C++ and I don't see any reason why would pascal be the standard language...

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You are right.
Pascal and Delphi are not used widely in the industry.

It is very sad that so much time is wasted with languages like these because some people don't realize the practical reality.

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I'm programming in C/C++ and I don't see any reason why would pascal be the standard language...
Then, i don't understand what your problem exactly is. It's an old discussion.. pick the language that suits you best. If you want to be an industry programmer, you might want to stick with your current. If you want to make Flash games for internet, pick that one. Good luck..

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I loved pascal. For me it was the perfect link between basic and c/c++.

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Languages are tools. What gets used depends on a very large number of factors (most of them are non-technical).

The sum of these factors makes C++ currently optimal choice for AAA game development.

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However I don't see any potential in this language to be used in the computer industry.
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I'm programming in C/C++ and I don't see any reason why would pascal be the standard language...


Computer industry in general has little to do with software languages. In software development however, C++ has around 15% share currently, and it's slowly decreasing (don't have the link handy). It was completely overtaken by .Net (all languages) and Java (J2EE).

In 5 years, things will be different again, just like they were 5 years ago.


Don't learn languages.... Learn to develop software.

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Original post by Antheus
C++ has around 15% share currently, and it's slowly decreasing (don't have the link handy). It was completely overtaken by .Net (all languages) and Java (J2EE).


I don't think those numbers apply to game development though.

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Pascal and Delphi are different things, and there also other dialects. I think no one uses the classic Pascal anymore, as it doesn't support OO.
Quote:
Original post by AntheusDon't learn languages.... Learn to develop software.
Amen to that!

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Original post by Giedrius
I'm programming in C/C++ and I don't see any reason why would pascal be the standard language...


I think it has developed a reputation as a learning language. Apple was pushing it 'back in the day'.

I was going to take a programming class in high school, and it was taught using pascal; unfortunately I moved before taking the class.

Maybe, as stated above, it's a bridge between basic and other high level languages.

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Original post by Marmin
Pascal and Delphi are different things, and there also other dialects. I think no one uses the classic Pascal anymore, as it doesn't support OO.


And some early versions of Turbo Pascal were limited to 64k programs (under MS-DOS), if I remember correctly.

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Original post by Marmin
Pascal and Delphi are different things, and there also other dialects. I think no one uses the classic Pascal anymore, as it doesn't support OO.


I didn't say that they are the same thing. And there is a version of pascal, called Object Pascal, which supports OO. And there are newer compilers, which support windows and don't have the 64KB memory limit.

However I don't see why it is such a good language for learning. Most people who know pascal and C/C++ say that C/C++ has a more clear syntax. Is it really all that helpful to have more english keywords? And the operators in C/C++ are a bit more natural, unlike := in pascal. Also the semicolon usage is a lot more clear in C/C++. Many beginners I've seen make a lot of semicolon mistakes in pascal, like putting a semicolon before an else statement. Furthermore when programming in C/C++, the programmer gets to know more about how a computer operates. There may be some reason to use pascal language for an introductory course in high schools, but it shouldn't be the language of choice in computer science and IT universities...

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Original post by Antheus
Don't learn languages.... Learn to develop software


I totally agree with you.

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Original post by cdoty
Quote:
Original post by Marmin
Pascal and Delphi are different things, and there also other dialects. I think no one uses the classic Pascal anymore, as it doesn't support OO.


And some early versions of Turbo Pascal were limited to 64k programs (under MS-DOS), if I remember correctly.


yeah, I remember this was limiting one of my first games I ever did back in school - a PvP asteroids game with lots of big static arrays for keeping track of missiles etc :)

aaah, the good old days!

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Original post by Anfall
You are right.
Pascal and Delphi are not used widely in the industry.

It is very sad that so much time is wasted with languages like these because some people don't realize the practical reality.


I beg to differ, see some examples of great game related delphi work:

http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/index.php
http://glscene.sourceforge.net/wikka/HomePage

I don't think you realise how much of a market share delphi has in medical, imaging, C&C manufacturing and financial billing industries.. you'd be suprised, and do not use that as a argument against use of delphi for making games, because you are making stupid assumptions with no real basis, delphi / object pascal is really good language for making games, there's no doubt about it, it's just not as popular as c/c++ in gamedev, but that's not a proper reason against it.

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Ok,

Allow me to jump in here and give my point of view. You said the majority of the market share in your area uses Pascal, and C varients are actualy on the decline. While I do believe it will be much easier to create a AAA game in a more mainstream language (due to the number of libraries already written for it), there are unique upsides in your area for using PASCAL that most of the coders on this site just DONT have. If you are looking at using/hiring local help in the area, PASCAL. So if your starting a LOCAL company and looking at hiring help, that may be the way to go. With basic laws of supply and demand, C++ programmers will most likely be more expensive out there since there are not as many with that skillset (bad if hiring, good for contract work and job security). But if your looking to hire, get your friends to help, etc, using a language thats obscure in your area would tend to be a BAD thing. This is probably quite similar to the situation with COBAL in the USA. On the other hand if relocating to another country is a strong possibility for you, go more mainstream.

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I am thinking about moving out to another country. But I still have to finish the high school and a university. I don't think that learning pascal in the university would be pretty useful for me... I taught myself C/C++ and I prefer that language. If I finish the university using the pascal language, would this education be considered by game companies when applying for a game programming job (preferably C/C++)?

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Quote:
Original post by Giedrius. And there is a version of pascal, called Object Pascal, which supports OO.
Object Pascal is a more generalised term of OO Pascal. Delphi is the specific dialect that Borland developed. For example the Free Pascal compiler can handle both.

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And there are newer compilers, which support windows and don't have the 64KB memory limit.
Obviously, you have a wrong view of what Pascal can do nowadays. You might want to read the wikipedia articles about Delphi and Object Pascal.

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Most people who know pascal and C/C++ say that C/C++ has a more clear syntax.
imo it's generally considered that Pascal has a more clear syntax. That's why it's much used by students and used for teaching purposes.
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And the operators in C/C++ are a bit more natural, unlike := in pascal.

Variable := value;
What can be more natural than that.
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There may be some reason to use pascal language for an introductory course in high schools, but it shouldn't be the language of choice in computer science and IT universities...
it's dangerous to critisize a language. You'll have to have very good reasons and I don't think you gave any. Delphi is one of the safest, strongest languages around. If your school teaches you the old Pascal dialect of the 70ies, then I'd suggest you learn Delphi yourself on the net because the old dialect is useless nowadays.

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There are also .NET versions of Delphi. I managed to use some flavor of Pascal or Delphi during the first 12 years of my 18 year programming career. Pascal doesn't get a lot of respect, but the projects I've created with it have generated my employers tens of millions of dollars over the years.

Once the Delphi jobs dried up in my area I switched to SQL development 'cuz I hate programming in C. After learning that many of the key players at Borland moved over to Microsoft and were involved in developing C# I gave that a go. C# provides many of the things I liked about Delphi and as much as I hate to say it I like it better.

I guess I'm rambling. To paraphrase Antheus who said it best - don't learn languages, learn how to program. Once you can do that the language doesn't really matter - just use whatever makes the most sense for the job at hand. PHP, Perl, C#, C++, Assembly, Pascal, whatever - all just different tools to do the job.


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Original post by Marmin
Variable := value;
What can be more natural than that.



Exactly. And how are &&, ||, == natural? Pascal uses ":=" as the assignment operator and "=" as the comparison operator. That makes a lot more sense than using "=" as assignment and "==" as comparison.



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Original post by Delfi
[because you are making stupid assumptions with no real basis

Cut it out with the rudeness, now.

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If you've understood the paradigms and are a capable programmer, moving from on language to another should be a week's time, so that's the least thing I'd bother about. You better learn programming first, no matter what language you use. And in the industry, no one really cares as long as you can prove you're a good programmer.

And yes, I can see a reason why one doesn't wanna teach programming in C if the students don't have a clue. I had to do that with first year CS students myself, and it was a real pain in the ass. I suggested to teach some functional programming language first, because it works way better.

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OK, I see that pascal is a better language than my impression about it was. And the syntax issues probably depend on the person. I know how to program in many languages, and picking a new language up is a matter of a few days, or in the worst case, a few weeks, I'm just upset that I don't have the freedom of choice.

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This is a great topic and all. But to me, if people cannot give examples you are either posting what you THINK, or what you have HEARD. If Pascal is good for game development show me a marketable game that is using it. Usually gameDevs at some point tell us what they are using. If it is big in medical, then show us where.
I am not disagreeing, heck I never even knew that Pascal was even a big language, I am new in the last 4 years where C++ has been all the talk.

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Pascal has a greater following over C and related languages in many non-English countries (especially in Europe) for the simple reason that C uses characters that are often replaced in computers for other languages. For example the { character in older Danish terminals is replaced by æ, and other characters are remapped similarly. So the C program:

int main(int argc, char * argv[]) {
printf("Hello, %s\n", argv[1]);
}

Would look like:

int main(int argc, char * argvÆÁ) æ
printf("Hello, %sØn", argvÆ1Á);
á

on an older Danish terminal (assuming I remapped everything by hand correctly). Many Danes decided that they didn't want to program in a language with such funky looking syntax, and used languages like Pascal, which didn't look this funky to them. I assume something similar happened in Lithuania.

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Our new standard keyboard layout is terrible (I don't know who created it, but I think that the creator is rather incompetent) for even typing in Lithuanian, not to mention programming, as you have to press ctrl+alt+<some key, like - > to get a { (This example may be incorrect as I don't actually remember the layout, but you get the idea how bad it is). But everyone usually uses the QWERTY english layout and switches to the Lithuanian layout when needed. I don't remember any issues with the symbols used in C/C++ language. By the way, the pascal language was made the standard here not so long ago.

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