Laptops, with true portability - Battery Technology
Author
Having laptops with a 4 to 5 hour 'max' battery life can really get in the way of true portability. My cell phone usually lasts around 4-5 days (without a recharge).
Imagine having true laptop portability where you'd rarely have to worry about charging it back up... I know a lot of people who's laptop batteries have died after a year of use, which brings me to another point, "li ion batteries have limited charge and discharge cycles before they die".
I would love to be able to walk around my house and College with my laptop and not worry about using up the lifecycles of my lithium ion battery.
AND, I know this sounds like a dream or something but, do you think that this is really possible? I don't know about you, but a battery that lasts for 30 years sounds a little bit unrealistic to me.
Quote:Original post by Instigator
AND, I know this sounds like a dream or something but, do you think that this is really possible? I don't know about you, but a battery that lasts for 30 years sounds a little bit unrealistic to me.
They do exist and are quite common in satellites, missiles, and remote sensors. Unfortunately, they rely on very radioactive substances and as such are very expensive and will never appear in consumer technology.
Author
Quote:Original post by CrimsonSun
They do exist and are quite common in satellites, missiles, and remote sensors. Unfortunately, they rely on very radioactive substances and as such are very expensive and will never appear in consumer technology.
Actually, the best part about it is that they aren't radioactive. This is an exact quote from the article
Quote:
Although betavoltaic batteries sound Nuclear they’re not, they neither use fission/fusion or chemical processes to produce energy and so (do not produce any radioactive or hazardous waste).
No, they don't use fission or fusion or create radioactive waste, but they still operate via radioactive materials and based on the release of radiation.
The end result isn't radioactive, so it doesn't create radioactive waste, but the battery itself is radioactive (it even says so right in the article).
Where do you think the power comes from? It says right in the article; the radioactive material decays, releasing beta particles. That is harmful radiation, even though it isn't the result of fission or fusion. If they've got something that will release at least 60W 30 years from now (and more radiation now), that'll take a lot of shielding to block all the radiation from getting to the consumers.
The word 'Nuclear' has so many preconceptions in the public mind these days. Things that use dangerous radiation, like this, are 'OK' because they don't use fission or fusion, while safe nuclear reactors are shunned.
This sort of battery is much more appropriate for a satellite than for a laptop.
The end result isn't radioactive, so it doesn't create radioactive waste, but the battery itself is radioactive (it even says so right in the article).
Where do you think the power comes from? It says right in the article; the radioactive material decays, releasing beta particles. That is harmful radiation, even though it isn't the result of fission or fusion. If they've got something that will release at least 60W 30 years from now (and more radiation now), that'll take a lot of shielding to block all the radiation from getting to the consumers.
The word 'Nuclear' has so many preconceptions in the public mind these days. Things that use dangerous radiation, like this, are 'OK' because they don't use fission or fusion, while safe nuclear reactors are shunned.
This sort of battery is much more appropriate for a satellite than for a laptop.
They could make them for consumer goods, ones with low power requirements, and not have overly bulky shielding. However the problem comes when something bad happens to it. You drop your MP3 player with unlimited battery life, it cracks, oh look, you're now getting an unhealthy dose of radiation. Likely not enough to kill you, but should you slip that bad boy into the front pocket of your pants, say byebye to kids, and hello to nearly safe casual sex,...
I'm sure after putting it that way, some on this site will fail to see the downside to this.
I'm sure after putting it that way, some on this site will fail to see the downside to this.
Quote:Original post by Talroth
I'm sure after putting it that way, some on this site will fail to see the downside to this.
Or a pro side... There is bound to be a crapload of people who we don't want to contaminate the gene pool. Those silent sterilization devices might come in handy there...
As a sidenote: While they claim awesome results, the battery at it's current size would produce not enough energy to power a laptop when it's the size of a laptop battery. In fact, the amount of power it produces is so weak, you cna't even power a light bulb with it.
Toolmaker
Quote:Original post by Talroth
They could make them for consumer goods, ones with low power requirements, and not have overly bulky shielding.
IIRC beta radiation doesn't penatrate very far and can be stopped by thin (3 to 4mm) pieces of metal. Although I have no idea how much of the decaying material you'd need to get a workable current.
Author
... I guess I'll just stick with the marvels of Li ion. Thanks for the clarification guys.
i ranted about this crap on my blog
basically the article is filled with BS.
"We have a non-thermal reactions so there is also no risk of over-heating"
Non-thermal reaction. Yeach.
Laptop consumes over 50W of power. Quick search shows that maximal possible electrical conversion efficiency for betavoitaics is around 25% which means there needs to be 200W of total power, 25% of which, that is 50W is converted to electricity (so in laptop you have 150W coming as heat and radiation directly from the battery, and 50W of heat coming from electronics). Surely such laptops are going to be very hot product.
"when the battery runs out of power it is non-toxic"
Radioactive decay doesn't work like emptying bathtub. After time of half-life, there's half of radioactive material, after two times of halflife there is quarter (and so on). Suppose laptop needs 50W power. It means when the battery is not giving enough power for laptop, it's still outputting like 49W. When it comes to radioactivity, 49W (or actually >4x more coz of inefficiency of conversion) is a LOT. Usual lethally radioactive sources (like ones used in medicine, for food irradiation, etc) output like milliwatts of power.
Now, this thing is supposed to be outputting beta particles only. Those don't go far in materials. But if you ingest it, which could happen e.g. if some miniscule amount of radioactive material gets dissolved in water (even glass dissolves in water a little), you gonna get rather bad dose.
Furthermore, when beta particles (fast electrons) are stopped, them emit x-ray radiation, which would requir some serious lead shielding.
basically the article is filled with BS.
"We have a non-thermal reactions so there is also no risk of over-heating"
Non-thermal reaction. Yeach.
Laptop consumes over 50W of power. Quick search shows that maximal possible electrical conversion efficiency for betavoitaics is around 25% which means there needs to be 200W of total power, 25% of which, that is 50W is converted to electricity (so in laptop you have 150W coming as heat and radiation directly from the battery, and 50W of heat coming from electronics). Surely such laptops are going to be very hot product.
"when the battery runs out of power it is non-toxic"
Radioactive decay doesn't work like emptying bathtub. After time of half-life, there's half of radioactive material, after two times of halflife there is quarter (and so on). Suppose laptop needs 50W power. It means when the battery is not giving enough power for laptop, it's still outputting like 49W. When it comes to radioactivity, 49W (or actually >4x more coz of inefficiency of conversion) is a LOT. Usual lethally radioactive sources (like ones used in medicine, for food irradiation, etc) output like milliwatts of power.
Now, this thing is supposed to be outputting beta particles only. Those don't go far in materials. But if you ingest it, which could happen e.g. if some miniscule amount of radioactive material gets dissolved in water (even glass dissolves in water a little), you gonna get rather bad dose.
Furthermore, when beta particles (fast electrons) are stopped, them emit x-ray radiation, which would requir some serious lead shielding.
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