Quote:Original post by blueEbola
It amazes me how vengeful vegans and vegetarians can be towards those who eat meat.

Vengeful? Really? I don't see that at all. What specific post in this thread from a vegetarian or vegan strikes you as vengeful?

The ethics are really quite simple:
1. All life is precious.
2. I must eat living things so that I myself may live.

Personally I think more frequently recognizing the fact that we eat living things would be a good thing. Sort of a keep perspective on reality kind of thing.

As for biological and evolutionary arguments, I don't have any real science to back me up but it does seem that humans thrive quite nicely on a diet that includes meat. The ideal amount as recommended by nutritionists seems to be around 15% or so. That's probably a lot less than what most people eat but then again people seem to have a tendency to ingest a multitude of poisons and toxins for recreational purposes, usually during playoff season. Come to think of it, I'd bet meat intake increases substantialy during various playoffs as well. That's what we need to do, ban all sporting events. That's the ticket to creating a world of vegitarians.

I just didn't like the attitude of some of the posts (guess I misinterpreted yours then) and was bit annoyed how you put down RSC's post with a 'witty' comment like it had no value at all.

I'm a meat-eater too, but also see steering away from it in the future as a reasonable goal, because I respect animals whereas I do people, and because it brings up - and keeps up the 'barbarians' in us.

"As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields."

Counter question here to vegetarians-- Would you stop from eating plants if a non-organic solution was found? Do you 'care' that plants are alive? And if so, do you eat them alive?

Also, what about meal worms?

Quote:Original post by Salsa
Uh, what?

I spent an interesting evening recently with a grain of salt.

Quote:Original post by amannis
I just didn't like the attitude of some of the posts (guess I misinterpreted yours then) and was bit annoyed how you put down RSC's post with a 'witty' comment like it had no value at all.

I'm a meat-eater too, but also see steering away from it in the future as a reasonable goal, because I respect animals whereas I do people, and because it brings up - and keeps up the 'barbarians' in us.

"As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields."

RSC is the lounge forum troll. He makes all kinds of amusing posts to derail the conversation ;-). If you take him for what he is he's acctually pretty funny imo.

Its not true that vegatarians fight fewer wars. Large section sof the Indian subcontient were vegitarian, and they had wars with each other, the same as the rest of the world. Additionally, people used to eat less meat in the past in europe because they just couldnt afford to eat it as often, and they werent any more peaceful then we are now.

I seem to recall having a thread on this topic once before. There seems to be a slightly more rational discussion about it now however (so maybe I should stay out of it? ;)

I've come to conclude that, due to our physiology, we (the western world, at least) should be eating less meat if we are at all concerned about our health. We should also be eating less of many, many other non-meat things, the sum of which probably contributes to most common health problems (at least in the USA and Canada.) All of this is just suspicion because I'm not really compelled to go rummage through health studies that may or may not have some spin on them in a futile attempt to convince people I don't know of something (your health) that won't benefit me directly.

Humans have been eating meat for thousands of years. But we haven't always been going into restaurants and ordering sheets of ham (in-joke.) We don't have to think about our food any more. When it comes to meat, we don't have to think about slaughterhouses or how the animal was living before it was killed. Most of us do not hunt or fish for our food. I don't think that going into a supermarket and picking up a couple pounds of ribs from a (possibly over-drugged, over-fed) animal is going to net you the same health benefits as tracking down a wild buffalo or even slaughtering a cow that you have raised on your own farm (where you know exactly what it ate and how healthy it was before you killed it.)

As some have aptly observed, ethical arguments against eating meat quickly degenerate into a flame war. There's this notion that tucking into large, still slightly bloody chunks of previously frozen meat prepared, and maybe acquired in bulk by a woman on her weekly trip through costco, is the epitome of manliness. How dare anyone sympathize with these animals? Fools! Line up the baby rabbits for me, as I must prevent the surplus of meat that these pansies are sure to create in their touchy-feely ways. Heart disease and colon cancer be damned, there's no way I'll be robbed of my beloved meat! And so on, as some are immediately put on the defensive in an attempt to repulse those pushy vegetarians, always popping up at every turn like unwanted Jehovah Witnesses.

Perhaps the threat to masculinity is stemmed from weight lifting (a "manly" activity)? Protein is vital to the activity, so perhaps a connection is made there. Unfortunately, I don't think eating the meat with out lifting the weights is going to positively affect your physique, so this line of thinking is flawed. It could also have something to do with hunting, a traditionally masculine activity, but few hunt for their main supply of food. I'm not really sure, but I do find these posts amusing.

There are also those who find that it just tastes good, so what's the big deal about? And those too who will eat meat but refuse to hear about where it came from. I suspect that it's just easier to eat meat than to think about it. Like so many things... any processed food, really. And apathy runs rampant these days, so I suppose I can attribute such perspectives to that.

I think my personal issue with meat eating can be extended to food in general. It's no longer respected. We reject healthy subjects in search of the most processed, artificially flavoured and coloured edible compounds attractively packaged and conveniently arrayed in our supermarkets of choice. We scarf down as much as we can as if we are on the brink of a year long hibernation. We have no notion of portion control, of moderation, or even of nutrition, despite widely available and free food guides (how many people actually know what a serving of meat or protein is? how many people know how many servings are recommended in a day? how many people actually follow these guidelines?) And, most importantly, we do not support local business and local farms.

Perhaps, in terms of nutrition, the emphasis should be placed less on meat and more on "the other stuff": fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. This way, the meat eaters are not as offended (no one is telling them to stop doing something, rather the exact opposite.) Now, I don't blame anyone for turning up their nose at the feeble offering of fruit that lies on the bottom rack of an in-counter refrigerator at McDonalds (slowly dehydrating apples and caremel sauce in a cup, anyone?) Nor at what is often presented at midrange restaurants... mushy, overcooked broccoli (fly infestations optional); pale, tasteless bell peppers; or limp, rotting lettuce. Indeed, it can be at trial to find better produce at a grocery store. Yet without knowing what the solid crunch of broccoli, crisp sweetness of peppers, or fresh vitality of lettuce is even like, is it any wonder poor substitutes are accepted and common place?

So, in summary, demand better for yourself. Expand your palatte beyond meat and potatoes. Venture forth into the rich world of fresh food. It's okay. Unless you're going about it in a very unfortunate way, your penis will still be intact when you're done.