Quote:Original post by Samith

Quote:Original post by Extrarius
Why does everybody assume that papers indicate competence, and that if a person isn't competent at practical application, they must obviously be a genius theorist?

Personally, I've had several professors with nice papers that didn't know what they were talking about, and I generally found that such professors were equally incompetent at computer science, mathematics, software development, electrical engineering, and any other relevant fields.

That may be true, but when someone comes in and derides his professor as incompetent in the field of computer science based on the professor's lack of comfort in Excel, it's easy for the rest of us to side with the professor in question.

This is true; I agree with you entirely. But she didn't even know how to program in Scheme; we were teaching her how to use cons and append. She'd write multiple clauses in "if" statements and single clauses in "cond" statements(bad style, but acceptable). She had a heck of a time explaining high-level functions and wondered why the never worked for her. She also seemed to teach as if she wasn't sure what she was doing. I'd be happy if it was a purely math-based, but if one is to teach programming, know how to program. Good professor, bad with computers/programming.

Quote:Original post by Chad Seibert

Quote:Original post by Samith

Quote:Original post by Extrarius
Why does everybody assume that papers indicate competence, and that if a person isn't competent at practical application, they must obviously be a genius theorist?

Personally, I've had several professors with nice papers that didn't know what they were talking about, and I generally found that such professors were equally incompetent at computer science, mathematics, software development, electrical engineering, and any other relevant fields.

That may be true, but when someone comes in and derides his professor as incompetent in the field of computer science based on the professor's lack of comfort in Excel, it's easy for the rest of us to side with the professor in question.

This is true; I agree with you entirely. But she didn't even know how to program in Scheme; we were teaching her how to use cons and append. She'd write multiple clauses in "if" statements and single clauses in "cond" statements(bad style, but acceptable). She had a heck of a time explaining high-level functions and wondered why the never worked for her. She also seemed to teach as if she wasn't sure what she was doing. I'd be happy if it was a purely math-based, but if one is to teach programming, know how to program. Good professor, bad with computers/programming.

You mentioned earlier that she taught some higher level algorithm classes; I'm willing to bet that your university didn't have anyone who wanted to teach entry-level programming and threw it to her. In my experience, good programming teachers are much harder to come by than good comp sci teachers, because most good programmers are, well, programming for a living.

Quote:Original post by Chad Seibert

Quote:Original post by Samith

Quote:Original post by Extrarius
Why does everybody assume that papers indicate competence, and that if a person isn't competent at practical application, they must obviously be a genius theorist?

Personally, I've had several professors with nice papers that didn't know what they were talking about, and I generally found that such professors were equally incompetent at computer science, mathematics, software development, electrical engineering, and any other relevant fields.

That may be true, but when someone comes in and derides his professor as incompetent in the field of computer science based on the professor's lack of comfort in Excel, it's easy for the rest of us to side with the professor in question.

This is true; I agree with you entirely. But she didn't even know how to program in Scheme; we were teaching her how to use cons and append. She'd write multiple clauses in "if" statements and single clauses in "cond" statements(bad style, but acceptable). She had a heck of a time explaining high-level functions and wondered why the never worked for her. She also seemed to teach as if she wasn't sure what she was doing. I'd be happy if it was a purely math-based, but if one is to teach programming, know how to program. Good professor, bad with computers/programming.

Hmm, well that kind of sucks. I see you're from Minnesota, as I am. May I ask what university you are attending?

Quote:Original post by Samith

Quote:Original post by Chad Seibert

Quote:Original post by Samith

Quote:Original post by Extrarius
Why does everybody assume that papers indicate competence, and that if a person isn't competent at practical application, they must obviously be a genius theorist?

Personally, I've had several professors with nice papers that didn't know what they were talking about, and I generally found that such professors were equally incompetent at computer science, mathematics, software development, electrical engineering, and any other relevant fields.

That may be true, but when someone comes in and derides his professor as incompetent in the field of computer science based on the professor's lack of comfort in Excel, it's easy for the rest of us to side with the professor in question.

This is true; I agree with you entirely. But she didn't even know how to program in Scheme; we were teaching her how to use cons and append. She'd write multiple clauses in "if" statements and single clauses in "cond" statements(bad style, but acceptable). She had a heck of a time explaining high-level functions and wondered why the never worked for her. She also seemed to teach as if she wasn't sure what she was doing. I'd be happy if it was a purely math-based, but if one is to teach programming, know how to program. Good professor, bad with computers/programming.

Hmm, well that kind of sucks. I see you're from Minnesota, as I am. May I ask what university you are attending?

University of Minnesota, Morris.

If, in general, programming courses aren't taught in csci courses, wouldn't this explain why so much "bad code" is written? Can it be assumed that people can write "good code" based on a set of algorithm courses (which compose a typical csci degree)?

Quote:Original post by Chad Seibert
University of Minnesota, Morris.

Heh, go Cougs! I'd be curious to know which prof you're having problems with. I can recall three female CSci profs. Maybe you could PM me the name? [smile]

One was an instructor and I don't think she had a PhD. She was truly bad and I'm not sure why she lasted so long. She's a counterexample to my claim that the bad ones got weeded out after a year or two (but that comment was made with the Math discipline in mind, where there were two examples of that happening). I think she's the reason several students quit CSci after the first intro course (I quit CSci after that course, too, but for different reasons).

As for the other two, I heard no complaints about one and that the other one was bad for intro courses but did better once you got to the upper level courses.

One thing to keep in mind is that you're at a liberal arts college. The sort of CSci you'll learn will be much more liberal artsy than it sounds like you're expecting. I'd actually say that, UMM being a liberal arts college, you'd be better off sticking to what are more traditionally thought of as liberal arts; I have no complaints about my physics and math education from there. Though, for what it's worth, I'll say that I knew several CSci students there, and they all seemed pleased with their education after graduation. I think things get better in the CSci program as you progress.

Quote:Original post by Chad Seibert
University of Minnesota, Morris.

If, in general, programming courses aren't taught in csci courses, wouldn't this explain why so much "bad code" is written? Can it be assumed that people can write "good code" based on a set of algorithm courses (which compose a typical csci degree)?

Bad code typically comes from students never being forced to think of the long term consequences of their style and design choices. Programming assignments don't typically grow beyond a few hundred lines of code, and they're typically done solo. Such code is never meant for reuse and typically usability isn't a student's concern. After four years of coding like that, students go into the industry and see million line projects being worked on by a dozen or more programmers and don't know what to do. Suddenly the code they write will likely be used for a very long time and by a lot of people. Its clarity and ease of use is a huge concern, and the student has never learned to program with those things in mind.

Software engineering classes are probably the best courses to take to try and cure the bad coding habits.

Quote:Original post by Samith
Bad code typically comes from students never being forced to think of the long term consequences of their style and design choices. Programming assignments don't typically grow beyond a few hundred lines of code, and they're typically done solo. Such code is never meant for reuse and typically usability isn't a student's concern. After four years of coding like that, students go into the industry and see million line projects being worked on by a dozen or more programmers and don't know what to do. Suddenly the code they write will likely be used for a very long time and by a lot of people. Its clarity and ease of use is a huge concern, and the student has never learned to program with those things in mind.

Software engineering classes are probably the best courses to take to try and cure the bad coding habits.

You won't find anything under a Software Engineering heading at UMM. However, some of the upper level CSci courses there do focus on team projects with changing requirements over time. I hear it's the most grueling part of the curriculum there, but very worth it. You don't get million line projects with dozens of programmers, but you do feel the bite of bad code.

What does ratemyprofessors.com say about her? ;)