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Romax

Industry standard Game developer.

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Firstly, i'd like to just say hello to all, just joined this forum and hope to be posting as often as possible. Secondly, does anybody know the most populor game developing engine used by proffessionals in the bussiness? By proffetionals, i'm reffering to teams such as Rockstar and THQ. After reading a few topics on here its come to my attention that i'd need to learn most of the C programming languages, That i'm fine with. But after recently purchasing Visual Studio 2005 from a friend of mine, i couldnt get around it. After about 3 months of playing around with the program i didnt progress any further. This isnt ussually how i am, but i think the problem i was having is that i was using Visual Studio for games rather than a developing tool for programs. As i said before, learning the C programming languages isnt really the major problem. In this case, i'm just trying to find a gaming engine thats effecient, and at most, an industry standard. I've been through most of the engines, but the most frequent one i'm using right now is Dark Basic Proffesional, its a very good tool. But i always found it hard to believe teams behind games such as halo 3 were still using Dark Basic... Sorry this topics so huge, just tryed to ram everything in. Thanks for your help. Regards, Michael.

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You'll need to know C++ before you can use most 'professional' game engines...

Unreal3 is very popular for shooters, Gamebryo is very popular in a wide range of genres. Source is used for everything Valve does. ID's series of engines have always been very popular and widely used.
Also, a lot of developers (such as Rockstar) don't even bother buying an engine, they just make their own...

Quote:
Original post by Romax
This isnt ussually how i am, but i think the problem i was having is that i was using Visual Studio for games rather than a developing tool for programs.

What's the difference? A game is just a type of program...

Quote:
Original post by Romax
I've been through most of the engines, but the most frequent one i'm using right now is Dark Basic Proffesional, its a very good tool. But i always found it hard to believe teams behind games such as halo 3 were still using Dark Basic...

AFAIK Halo 3 uses it's own custom-built engine.
Which engines have you looked at? There's a lot out there, and most won't let you have a peek without signing an NDA or paying lots of money.

Isn't dark basic just a language which happens to have a lot of gaming components in its standard library? It's probably possible to make a halo3 type game with dark-basic... but... it's BASIC...

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Original post by Romax
Firstly, i'd like to just say hello to all, just joined this forum and hope to be posting as often as possible.

Secondly, does anybody know the most populor game developing engine used by proffessionals in the bussiness?
By proffetionals, i'm reffering to teams such as Rockstar and THQ.

After reading a few topics on here its come to my attention that i'd need to learn most of the C programming languages, That i'm fine with.
But after recently purchasing Visual Studio 2005 from a friend of mine, i couldnt get around it. After about 3 months of playing around with the program i didnt progress any further.
This isnt ussually how i am, but i think the problem i was having is that i was using Visual Studio for games rather than a developing tool for programs.

As i said before, learning the C programming languages isnt really the major problem.
In this case, i'm just trying to find a gaming engine thats effecient, and at most, an industry standard.

I've been through most of the engines, but the most frequent one i'm using right now is Dark Basic Proffesional, its a very good tool. But i always found it hard to believe teams behind games such as halo 3 were still using Dark Basic...

Sorry this topics so huge, just tryed to ram everything in.
Thanks for your help.

Regards,
Michael.
Companies that develop AAA games usually use in-house engines, or engines that have been licensed from other companies at significant expense. In either case, these engines are (for the most part) out of reach for hobbyist or independent developers.

There are many other options though, including numerous free or low-cost engines that can be found online.

Also, although C is still used in the game programming industry, it is not necessary to learn C (or even C++) in order to develop games. In fact, if you're new to game development, some would suggest that you start with another language entirely (such as C#).

Keep in mind that, for the most part, using a 3rd-party engine still requires a certain degree of programming expertise. If you haven't been able to get a handle on compiling simple programs with Visual Studio or what have you, you probably aren't going to have any easier of a time trying to, say, build a game using the Quake 3 engine (which is free, by the way).

Creating 'AAA' games is non-trivial no matter what tools you use, so don't expect that getting a hold of the 'engine the professionals use' is going to pave the way for you. As is often suggested on these forums, if you're new to game development, it's usually best to start with a manageable language and a game of modest scope and complexity, and then work your way up from there.

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Oh, I knew some teams create their own engines, but being a one man team as of now i doubt i'll be creating one anytime soon.

As for the C++, i'll put as much time as needed untill i learn it.
But, it was never about learning it to me, because, you can read a few books on how to program in C++, but i needed a popular engine that uses C++ so i can see my progress in realtime (Instead of creating a program in my head and Contemplating how it would turn out.)

Does Gamebyro come with a compiler or would i have to purchase an additional compiler to work with it?

I also found another engine called Renderware, used widelly in the video game industry.
Still researching it, so correct me if i'm wrong, but is this also an engine that runs on C++, or is this not even an engine at all.

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Original post by jyk
Creating 'AAA' games is non-trivial no matter what tools you use, so don't expect that getting a hold of the 'engine the professionals use' is going to pave the way for you. As is often suggested on these forums, if you're new to game development, it's usually best to start with a manageable language and a game of modest scope and complexity, and then work your way up from there.


I understand that there will be alot of work needed, i'm not saying i expect a 'Point, click and run' game engine.

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Original post by RomaxBut, it was never about learning it to me, because, you can read a few books on how to program in C++,


and

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After about 3 months of playing around with the program i didnt progress any further


You need to learn to crawl, before you can walk, let alone run.

To paraphrase Futurama, just like the boxer who wants be a champion needs to win at least one match, so must a programmer write at least one program.

It's not about reading a few books. It's about writing a few programs. If books help you with that, fine, but they are optional. It's the software that counts. Engines are no different, without knowing programming (the concept, not languages) inside out, you won't progress.

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Original post by Romax
Does Gamebyro come with a compiler or would i have to purchase an additional compiler to work with it?

I also found another engine called Renderware, used widelly in the video game industry.
Still researching it, so correct me if i'm wrong, but is this also an engine that runs on C++, or is this not even an engine at all.

Visual Studio 2005 is your compiler; you use Visual Studio to compile Gamebryo (not that you're going to be compiling anything as expensive gamebryo any time soon)...
A game engine is just a big pile of source code that someone else has written for you. So if it's a C++ game engine then most of the time your development environment is going to be Visual Studio.

Renderware was a competitor to Gamebryo, but then EA bought Renderware and I don't think they let anyone else use it anymore (so now it's one of those "in-house engines").

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i understand that, i didnt just wake up one morning and say, hey, i'll become a game developer.
And, bym you can read a few books, i didnt mean you'd be able to learn the whole language of C++ just by reading a book, my entire sentence stated; that you can read a few books on C++ but it wouldnt be any use without an engine to compile it.

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Quote:
Original post by Romax
i understand that, i didnt just wake up one morning and say, hey, i'll become a game developer.
And, bym you can read a few books, i didnt mean you'd be able to learn the whole language of C++ just by reading a book, my entire sentence stated; that you can read a few books on C++ but it wouldnt be any use without an engine to compile it.

Engines don't compile code. Compliers compile code. Then engines themselves are written with code. Engines arnt magic program that enable game programming. Engines themselves are written in a language(Mostly c++), they simply a base of common functions for games.

You don't need a engine really. Just start of creating simple games first.

You really need to be fluent in programming, before you can start creating games of any decent complexity. Learn the langauges, then learn how to game program.

[Edited by - Alastair Gould on January 1, 2008 8:37:15 PM]

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But i find it rather hard to leanr the language without practising while learning it, its like, reading a book on How to cook; even though you've read the book, and learnt all there is to learn, that still doesnt prepare you for the real challenge.

Anyway, this topics gone further than expected, I've got my answer to the industry standard game engine.
Thanks for all your help guys.

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But i find it rather hard to leanr the language without practising while learning it, its like, reading a book on How to cook; even though you've read the book, and learnt all there is to learn, that still doesnt prepare you for the real challenge.

While your analogy may hold in general, your inexperience in the field of software development has lead you to apply it incorrectly.

You don't need an engine to practice programming. In fact, attempting to employ an engine at so early a stage in your C++ learning experience will simply confuse you. The cold, hard, facts of the matter are that if you want to learn to make games using C++, you must come to terms with the fact that you will be spending weeks or months writing simple programs -- using text-based, console input and output. No windows. No fancy pictures. No graphics. No sound. If you balk at this -- if you don't want to do it -- you will not have much success using C++ and you need to select some other path to get your games created. You need to grasp the basics before you can move on, and you need to practice with those basics without the overhead of learning too much extra cruft and tackling with problems beyond your ken.

To revisit your analogy, what you're attempting to do is read Cooking for Dummies, and then "practice" those skills by getting right to work catering a 150+ person wedding. Not going to fly, I'm afraid.

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This topic was started to ask what game engine is used by the gaming industry.
I completally understand that i'd have to learn the basics of programming before progressing to bigger projects.

I mentioned this about two posts ago, i never woke up saying 'I want to be a game developer'.
I already program games in DarkBasic Proffesional that could be distributed.
But i didnt want to spend the rest of my Programming years saying i made all my games using a basic language.

I'm fully prepared to spend as much time as possible learning the very basics of a program, I never said i want to jump from "Hello world!" to a Multiplayer fully role playing game.

Now, my analogy, i didnt mean to cook for a 150+ crowd, i meant to cook a meal for yourself.

And, another analogy to sum up what I mean could be; To learn a new language, one cant expect to put together a whole sentance after just learning "Hello."

I dont plan on putting together a game like GTA as soon as i learn 'cout << "Hello World!";'

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THQ uses several engines accross all their studios. There are a couple using Unreal 3 and as far as I know, the rest use their own engines (or are sharing technology with a sister studio).

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You seem to be confused in that you believe that it is impossible to make a game without an engine. This is plain, dead wrong. I would assert that until you start making games that are the programming equivalent of a 150+ person wedding, engines will be a hindrance. Until then, direct access (through, say SDL) to drawing, input, etc. will be far easier to get results with than a game engine. Your attitude is saying that if you don't have a game engine (especially if it's not the 'industry standard'), then you won't be able to make a game.

And to restate the logistical problems of getting an industry engine: They cost thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to license. The exact amount isn't really known, since most of them you have to sign an NDA just to look at (and no, they probably won't let an individual who is unlikely to come up with the money look at it).

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To answer your second question directly: Unreal, ID, and Source engines are usually quite popular although you will find a lot of teams will have their own in-house engine with 3rd or 1st libraries to handle areas such as physics and rendering.

Visual Studio is a standard in the gaming industry for compiling and writing. A lot of tools plug directly into the IDE.

As others has said, you don't need engines to write games. It may help but is not necessary. For example, Guess the number programs are games but you don't need an engine to write it.

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