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Malduster

Hello, Need some help.

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Hi all, Im new at GameDev.net, so yeah this is also an introduction. I just bought a new MacBook yesterday, and now im interested in game design etc on it. Im some what familiar with coding but the only language I really know well is HTML. Anyway, I want a language that is comparatively easy, maybe like Java, and has good capabilities. Basically I want it to be a multi-platform game as well. I hate to see graphics that hurt my eyes, im not here planning to make some game with Crysis like graphics, but I dont want to make a game with really box like graphics either. Anyway, so to game development im what you call a COMPLETE noob. I have read several tutorials etc but nothing that really interested me or explained a lot. I was looking at this tool called Blender, but for some reason its a pain to get it to work I cant even follow the tutorials because everything works so differently on mine. Ok so I was thinking of Java, because I have some good experience with it aswell... but I got jME but under NO circumstances could I get it to work. (Yes I followed all the tutorials, I spent friday-sunday trying to get it to work a few weeks back on my PC) So can anyone tell me: What language; Including ALL the tools I would be needing to develop a full game. So yeah thats all I need to know. Thanks in advance! P.S. my post is so wierd i admit, nothing is in order... if u have any questions that might help you determine what tools would be right for me please post.

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Sounds like you want to jump right into a 3D game. If you aren't a good programmer, then you have to use more "game creation" type tools.

There are too many options to list here.

I suggest you check out the Game Programming Wiki (gpwiki.org).

Blender has it's own little game engine, you could try that.

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Thanks for your reply,

You are some what right when you say im trying to jump straight into a 3D game... but those "Create game easily" tools are useless, id rather learn a language than do that stuff...

And well blender is for some reason hard, the stuff they tell on the tutorials ... well my copy doesn't do the same stuff, dunno why... but im not really interested in blender anymore.


I wanted to do either Java, C# or C++ but I dont know what tools to use....

And thanks i'll look that site up.

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If you want to be a programmer, pick a language (Java, C#, Python) are good choices. Then just stick to it for a few months, buy a book, read all the documentation on it, find a beginner tutorial.

You basically have to start with console/terminal applications, so your not even in 2D world and it will take awhile to build your skills.

And setting up your tools/compiler is always a PITA, especially the first time you do it.

Another option is Blitz 3D or the programs from The Game Creators.

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Quote:
Anyway, I want a language that is comparatively easy, maybe like Java, and has good capabilities.
Basically I want it to be a multi-platform game as well.
That pretty much eliminates C#. Python and Java provide inherent portability. C++ is a portable language itself, but implementation wise, its platform specific. So you have to rely on a lot of good cross-platform coding.

Quote:
I have read several tutorials etc but nothing that really interested me or explained a lot.
You have to work your way up. Game development is not a simple place to start. It's one of the hardest programming domains to get into.

Quote:
I was looking at this tool called Blender, but for some reason its a pain to get it to work I cant even follow the tutorials because everything works so differently on mine.
Blender is not a programming language. You could use it to make games, but if you're really interested in going down the programming route, you won't be touching it for a while. Not until you're at the level of dealing with handling model data and rendering a 3D world.

Quote:
Ok so I was thinking of Java, because I have some good experience with it aswell... but I got jME but under NO circumstances could I get it to work.
As in J2ME? If you want Java, you get J2SE. J2ME is for mobile devices, like a cell phone or PDA.

Quote:
So can anyone tell me: What language; Including ALL the tools I would be needing to develop a full game.
No language like that. Nothing comes in a "here's a complete everything you could possibly need gamedev programming package". Although you're better off with languages like Python and Java than C++. With C++, the core library is very small, and you'll have to learn a number of 3rd party libraries when making serious games.

If you have experience with a language, you should have no trouble getting it to work, right? Because if you do, that means your experience was superficial at best. Generally, you'll hear recommendations for Python and C# here. In your case, you probably should debate between Python and Java. I would advise against C++ until you have significantly more experience.

I am assuming you want to work your way up the programming route. If you want faster gratification, something like the DarkBasic toolset might be more appropriate.

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Quote:
Original post by Boder
If you want to be a programmer, pick a language (Java, C#, Python) are good choices. Then just stick to it for a few months, buy a book, read all the documentation on it, find a beginner tutorial.

You basically have to start with console/terminal applications, so your not even in 2D world and it will take awhile to build your skills.
Agreed, somewhat.

If you're willing to dual-boot Windows, C# is an excellent, excellent option. (I know it'll run under OS X via the Mono framework, but I can't give any testimony on the quality of the development tools.) The Visual Studio Express tools are very, very good and have astonishingly good documentation, as well as a lot of resources for new programmers.

Java is similar, but less newbie-friendly.

Python is a language a lot of people love and I can't stand. It reminds me way too much of BASIC to be regarded as anything but shifty, and I'd suggest you learn a more conventional language for a first go-round.

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Again if you'd be willing to dual-boot Windows, there's a version of BASIC called DarkBASIC, I suppose you could call it the middle ground between a programming language and a game-creator tool.

It's a version of the BASIC language specifically for DirectX games development. They have excellent tutorials for beginners and it takes no time at all to get a simple 3D game up and running.

Only drag is it takes away your cross-platform requirement.

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Thanks for the replies people.

No it wasnt J2ME, It was jME (Java Monkey Engine).

As for DARKBasic etc, I heard it does not have the kind of capabilities I want.

If I start a language I want it to be one with which I can theoretically create any kind of game I wish within 6 months - 12 months.


I seriously have no idea about Python, only Java... I heard Python is good... I'll do some research.

And I wont be running Boot Camp on my Mac, the reason I got it was the OS X and I have a separate computer with Vista so I dont need both in my mac.


EVE is based in Python right? Suddenly im somewhat interested in Python... i'll look up more on it, also if anyone wants to give me any links that might help me getting started with python I would really appreciate that.

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Malduster, if you want to create a game in 6-12 months so would i recommend Multimedia Fusion in it's newest version...

Though you won't have full control so is it quite powerful. (Not a single line of code needed at all needed.) It is a Event based "language".

If you still want to code so do NOT pick C++ to start with :P. (I got most my C++ experience from PHP XD.) Choose Python or whatever the others said.

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Quote:
Original post by Boder
Did you remember to check gpwiki.org for Python?


Aye I checked Python on gpwiki.org and went to pygame.com or something like that, and the screen shots were just.... too.... well you get my point.

So im still looking at C# and C++ and Java now.

I hear C++ is the king of languages when it comes to game programming. Is that true?

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Original post by Malduster
If I start a language I want it to be one with which I can theoretically create any kind of game I wish within 6 months - 12 months.

Let me stop you there. I'm not trying to put you down, but believe me when I say there is no such language. If that was possible, then why would we still waste money buying popular games? Why don't we just make them ourselves? Because we simply can't. It takes years, and I do mean years, of experience and learning to become good enough to make "any kind of game [you] wish". Obviously, you wouldn't know much about the whole process as you have hardly begun, but please rethink your goal, because you are going to fail if that is your goal. Perhaps you exaggerate when you say "any kind of game", but even still, you probably won't be even close in 6 months to a year. Its nothing personal, but that is just the pattern I seem to see here with new programmers. As for helping you choose a language, I'll refrain from giving advice because I only really know C++, and that probably isn't an ideal language given the situation.

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Quote:
Original post by Malduster
I hear C++ is the king of languages when it comes to game programming. Is that true?


Pretty vague to say - it depends what game.

I'd call C++ the 'multitool' of languages, you can create text games, 2D games, 3D games, AND it makes it easy to port to [insert ANY platform here].

Python and java are generally used for text-based or 2D, but I've seen plenty of full-scale 3D masterpieces made with it.

There's no 'perfect' language, and there's no be-all-and-end-all language for games. Use what you become most comfortable with.

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If I start a language I want it to be one with which I can theoretically create any kind of game I wish within 6 months - 12 months.
You would be a good candidate to read "The Mythical Man Month", especially the section on software estimation. You severely underestimate the number of expert man hours that go into polished games.

Quote:
Aye I checked Python on gpwiki.org and went to pygame.com or something like that, and the screen shots were just.... too.... well you get my point.
You seem to be confusing a language with 3rd party libraries. Doesn't really matter, as you're making superficial decisions anyway. If you want better graphics, make better graphics. Pygame is a wrapper for SDL, effectively, which allows you access to OpenGL. Theoretically speaking, your graphics isn't limited. It's up to you to make what you can of it.

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I hear C++ is the king of languages when it comes to game programming. Is that true?
Yes. But given your previous posts, I can only guess you'll interpret my acknowledgment to be something like "C++ is the best language for game programming", which is not what I am saying.

Or maybe what you need is a dose of experience. AAA games involve C++, so maybe we should leave you to C++, and see what happens after a week of trying it :| .

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You guys got the complete wrong impression... ugh...

I understand that its not possible, but like I said "theoretically" and what I meant was that I have good enough skill after a year of programming to be able to start some sort of professional game.

And by far I only seem to be interested in C++, but like theres Microsoft Visual C++ 2008.... what program should I use on my mac?


Im not trying to give the impression that im very good, you guys are misunderstanding...

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And by far I only seem to be interested in C++, but like theres Microsoft Visual C++ 2008.... what program should I use on my mac?
The most obvious choice would probably be Xcode. Alternatively, you could use GCC directly from the command line.

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Quote:
Original post by Malduster
Anyway, I want a language that is comparatively easy

C or C++ isn't easy, especially for a beginner.

Quote:
Original post by MaldusterI hate to see graphics that hurt my eyes, im not here planning to make some game with Crysis like graphics, but I dont want to make a game with really box like graphics either.

The quality of graphics is independent of the language. How good it looks depends on how good an artist you are or have access to. You can make a fantastic looking game in Python and 3rd party libraries like PyGame and a poor one with C++ and Irrlicht.

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You should have a version of XCode on one of the installation DVDs that came with your MacBook. So no need to download the gigabyte. Once you have it installed, you can program Java right away. There'll be no need to download/install/configure anything any further.

About the screenshots at Pygame: Slow down. Prepare yourself to bake small cakes for a while before expecting stunning visuals.

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Original post by Edward Ropple
Python is a language a lot of people love and I can't stand. It reminds me way too much of BASIC to be regarded as anything but shifty, and I'd suggest you learn a more conventional language for a first go-round.


O_____O

You MUST be joking.

The only thing Python and BASIC (speaking broadly; there are more variants of BASIC around than I could count) have in common is that they're easy to read - which is an obvious plus for source code (there is *no purpose* served by the source code being cryptic: deciphering sequences of seemingly random gibberish is the computer's job, not yours). It's also a perfectly "conventional" language. Which is to say, huge numbers of serious commercial projects use it extensively (including MMORPGs), and it's not in the set of languages commonly ridiculed by geeky internet trolls (that set being, roughly, VB, Java, PHP and COBOL, in approximate order of frequency of ridicule - I wouldn't say Java really deserves to be on that list, but that's how things are).

Seriously, have you actually tried *using it*?

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Quote:
Original post by Edward Ropple
Python is a language a lot of people love and I can't stand. It reminds me way too much of BASIC to be regarded as anything but shifty, and I'd suggest you learn a more conventional language for a first go-round.


I think Python is the best middle-ground between power and ease of use.

You can make pretty much anything with it, yet it's simple enough for a beginner to pick up.

I have no idea why you'd steer someone new away from such a language, it's a good choice for this guy.

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