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firefly28

Is it possible to run to versions of dx9 sdk? Or some comprimise to use older libs ?

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Hi I have a slightly dated book, however Im getting a much better understanding of DX because of the book. On the other hand I want to be able to use MS VS 2005 Express with the newer guides and using DXSDK november 2007. I also have Visual studio 6 which with a slightly older sdk I can run everything from the book (Which as mentioned is slightly dated it uses dx8 libs and unless Im mistaken I think the older sdk has more of these directx8libs that the book uses) Heres the thing although I should probably be using the most up to date libs Im sure you can understand that as a newbie I want to be able to go through my book verbatim until I get a better understanding of everything. Currently I have the DXSDK november 2007 which I am not sure if it works with VS 6 even if it does I want to follow things verbatim with the book and also follow the online up to date guides word for word thats why I want the following setup if possible: VS 6 = Older DXSDK VS 2005 Express = newer SDK Thanks :)

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First thing I'd suggest is to get a newer book. I know that it's easiest to use the book you have, but the more you go back, the less relevant the concepts, and you learn to program "the wrong way", using things which are deprecated or just out of fashion.

That said, if you insist on using this book, and limited yourself to Direct3D and not other old parts of the DX library (such as DirectInput, which isn't recommended, or DirectPlay which doesn't even exist on some modern Windows versions), then I'd say that for the sake of simplicity you should start with VC6 and the old SDK, and once you get comfortable, move to DX9 with the newest SDK and VS. The initial transition between DX8 and DX9 shouldn't be too hard, and you'd hopefully know enough to continue with adapting your knowledge.

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Thanks very much for the reply :) I realise the books out of date so Im going to use it for learning and do as you suggested. Thankfully , well as far as Im aware it doesnt use directdraw and you are the second person to mention about directinput - I will look for an alternative to that. The one thing I didnt know that was unused was directplay.

I will probably stick with learning this book at the momment and in a month when I can afford it I will buy a newer book. Is there any book you could reccomend? as an addition to my current book and one that I can see more up to date versions code and compare them.

Im going to up your rating since you have provided a neutral and useful answer , giving an example of how I can learn with the current book by sticking to direct3d and finding alternatives to directinput etc. It is the easiest to understand book that I have at this time and Im using it just too get me started. With other languages such as java I got accustomed to looking to the api for my answers once I understood the language to some degree so Im hoping as you point out if I learn the main concepts from this book It will make the transition easier(Thats what Im banking on and in the books favour it has some good abstractions in the form of diagrams that makes quite lengthy DX code make some sense, I can use the api for that I guess but its gtood to have a book for referance - Im really going to have to get an up to date book asap though!)

Thanks alot :)

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Quote:
Original post by firefly28
Thanks very much for the reply :) I realise the books out of date so Im going to use it for learning and do as you suggested. Thankfully , well as far as Im aware it doesnt use directdraw and you are the second person to mention about directinput - I will look for an alternative to that. The one thing I didnt know that was unused was directplay.
Mandatory "Don't use DirectInput" link. Plain window messages are fine for almost everything, which are sent to your window as WM_KEYUP and WM_KEYDOWN messages.
As for direct play, there's loads of libraries available, see the Multiplayer and Network Programming Forum FAQ for some examples. Personally, I use plain sockets.

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Even more than components that are simply deprecated, there are parts of D3D9 that are at their end-of-life; they're not particularly recommended for use in D3D9 and they're completely absent from D3D10. Specifically, I'm talking about the fixed-function pipeline - functions like SetLight() and SetTransform() - that has been replaced with shaders. Don't be put off - shaders aren't as hard as many people assume - but spending time learning the FFP is likely to be knowledge that you won't be using for very long.

I must admit that I don't know which books are best for Direct3D beginners these days, but looking at the things in the books section, it doesn't seem like there's any single book that covers both DirectX and shaders in a single volume, which is unfortunate.

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Cheers SP , yesah when I was looking for a DirectX book that covered 3d I found it hard to find a book that got good reviews that was also up to date.

Although getting a dated book with great reviews is perhaps a dodgy road to go down , hopefully it will help somewhat. Currently in the book Ive mostly read the theory side and I am working off tutorials of the web that are hopefully more up to date.

Im well pleased now though as last night I managed to put a triangle on the screen lol (Not using directdraw). I also managed to do the exercises at the end to change the colours at runtime. One of my "Folks" came into the house and I was explaining how I am starting to understand portions of the code. Next he says well if you understand it draw a triangle inside the original triangle leaving a line around the edge . I know thats easy for many of you , but just starting directx I had to think about the numbers and what code needed to be re-run to get 2 triangles rendered. (I did manage it - pretty trvial I know but hey Im still learning :), either way after studying all the code hard its a good sense of achievement, especially since there was no examples for that . I also inadvertently screwed up and because of that screw up it had the effect that when I pressed the up key it looked like the triangle was animated via a key press[pretty bad animation but still] ).

Finally the one area that worries me is matrix translations, I do have a rough idea of what they are doing transforming various coords - screen to 3d, and I can just use managed DXes functions but I want to learn the maths very soon and Im going to have to study trigonometry again which is something I havent done since high school. I honestly believe I can learn it if I get good resources through time explaining it. (Dont get me wrong Ive done various comp arcgitecture maths , hex conversions etc but 3d maths which involves trig is something I would like to get comfortable with - Im thinking x*y*z[this is most likely wrong but I havent really seen 3d in action yet] gives you a 3d representation? but theres so many translations and if I can get away with using the built in algorithms and still produce a basic 2d testbed type game described in my other threads , maybe I can learn gradually i.e put in various numbers , see what effect they have then maybe draw things out on paper at various stages rinse, repeat) I know I have huge amounts to learn and it is daunting but I have used SDL before and I really want to continue directx.

Thanks for the advice! [Im going to keep using the rating system for any tips as I think a system like this is a great idea and apologies for the huge post :)]

Note: Actually I just rated SuperPig and it didnt have an effect? Maybe its because Im too new to the forums?

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Rating is based on the difference between your rating and their rating, more or less. Superpig has an obscenely high rating, so it's very hard to push him above more than a fractional increase when you're only rated 1000 or so.

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Quote:
Original post by superpig
I must admit that I don't know which books are best for Direct3D beginners these days, but looking at the things in the books section, it doesn't seem like there's any single book that covers both DirectX and shaders in a single volume, which is unfortunate.


What about this one? (More info here)

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Noted Jpetrie, yeah thats makes sense.(I was upping the rating :) , I dont want to start downing ratings even if it would only have a tiny effect)

The price of that book seems good + It gets good reviews , I will look into that more at the end of the month and see about getting an up to date dx book + a beginners maths book related to basic 3d stuff. (I can use the translation functions but I just dont feel comfortable using code and not having a handle on why it works the way it does[No pun inteded hehe!!], I suppose I could always fire numbers into my code and see the outcomes, draw things on paper with coords and try an predict whats going to happen or explain in my head why somethings worked out wrong)

Heres one of the tutorials I was looking at - Im not sure how you all rate them but Im just trying to make the best of what I have at this time :)

A DirectX Tutorial

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Just wanted to add an aside, that assuming you wait a little longer for the transition to DX9, the March 2008 SDK will be usable with Visual C++ Express 2008, which should allow you to use this latest version of the IDE.

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