Thanks for the info guys. Im definetely going to learn C++ after i have really gotten good with python. After I feel comfortable with python and I begin making 2d and 3d games (simple ones nothing too crazy) Im going to dive into C++, which im sure will be easier to pick up after knowing python very well

Quote:Original post by Oluseyi
A pretty cool project I discovered a while back is StarKiller, which removed the dynamism from objects that it can statically determine don't need it. Unfortunately it appears dormant since the 2004 PyCON presentation, and there's been no attempt at integrating it with any production distribution.

Maybe that project has been superseded by Psyco? I think Psyco does the same kind of optimization (as well as some others), and it's pretty popular.

Quote:Original post by pinacolada

Quote:Original post by Oluseyi
...StarKiller...

Maybe that project has been superseded by Psyco? I think Psyco does the same kind of optimization (as well as some others), and it's pretty popular.

No, they're seperate projects. Psyco shares an/the same author with PyPy, who talked about using StarKiller's methods on the call graphs that PyPy already generates.

Quote:Original post by swiftcoder

Quote:Original post by biggjoee5790
Also when you say it would be marginally slower, what do you mean by that? Like the game will run at low fps?

In most cases it wont run noticeably slower, unless you are doing a lot of heavy lifting directly in . For most games, the graphics will be running through an already optimised C/C++ API (OpenGL or DirectX), and physics will also be implemented in C/C++, so most of the python code is high-level logic, AI and glue code — not typically the most expensive parts of a game.

Sadly, this is just untrue.
Python is more than marginally slower than C++, graphics are much more than just OpenGL doing it all, games are more than just graphics and physics.

So your game can be a little game that does not demand that much CPU power, and Python would be perfectly suited for this ( most 2D casuals games falls into this category ).
Or you can have Python and C++ working together, with embedded or extended Python, and C++ doing most of the CPU intensive jobs.

For any modern commercial-quality 3D game, you will need some C++ involved.

Emmanuel

[Edited by - Emmanuel77 on March 2, 2008 6:57:52 PM]

Quote:Original post by Emmanuel77

Quote:Original post by swiftcoder

Quote:Original post by biggjoee5790
Also when you say it would be marginally slower, what do you mean by that? Like the game will run at low fps?

In most cases it wont run noticeably slower, unless you are doing a lot of heavy lifting directly in . For most games, the graphics will be running through an already optimised C/C++ API (OpenGL or DirectX), and physics will also be implemented in C/C++, so most of the python code is high-level logic, AI and glue code — not typically the most expensive parts of a game.

Sadly, this is just untrue.
Python is more than marginally slower than C++, graphics are much more than just OpenGL doing it all, games are more than just graphics and physics.

So your game can be a little game that does not demand that much CPU power, and Python would be perfectly suited for this ( most 2D casuals games falls into this category ).
Or you can have Python and C++ working together, with embedded or extended Python, and C++ doing most of the CPU intensive jobs.

For any modern commercial-quality 3D game, you will need some C++ involved.

Emmanuel

haha well thats a completely different opinion lol.. i wonder what the reality is lol :) I guess Ill just find out myself when it comes time

What are your opinions on learning C#? How does that compare to C++ and Python? Is it more suitable for games than python? if so, is it reasonable for a beginner to start with as a first language?

Quote:Original post by biggjoee5790
What are your opinions on learning C#? How does that compare to C++ and Python? Is it more suitable for games than python? if so, is it reasonable for a beginner to start with as a first language?

Here's the single most important piece of advice you will receive on this issue: it doesn't matter which language you pick.

What matters is that you pick a language, stick with it, and continue working in it until you have a solid grasp of the fundamentals of programming, which are independent of any particular language. There are no bests, just goods. Python is good for beginners. C# is also good for beginners (depending on your perspective, maybe slightly less good, but still good). C++ is not so good for beginners, but a determined beginner starting with C++ will turn out just fine.

Pick a language. Stick with it.

Quote:Original post by Emmanuel77
So your game can be a little game that does not demand that much CPU power, and Python would be perfectly suited for this ( most 2D casuals games falls into this category ).

I take a number of exceptions to your post. First, the contention that Python is "more than marginally slower than C++" - on what basis? For equivalent source-level instructions, or for equivalent semantic instructions? For what types of instruction complexity? For instance, integer addition in C++ is much faster than in Python because of the need to resolve the late-bound identifier, but dynamic dispatch is much closer because this is the nature of all Python method dispatch. Without context, the statement is meaningless.

Second, the assertion that Python is only good for "little games" that "do not demand that much CPU power" - what precludes Python from demanding extensive CPU power, and employing it effectively? Given a robust and optimized extension module for known bottlenecks (identified by profiling, not making blanket assertions), core application architecture can be defined in Python and proven not to degrade significantly in performance terms. This is precisely the data - anecdotal, perhaps, but better than unsupported assertions - TheSenshi gave me re his experience developing a full-blown 3D game in Python.

High-performance game development in Python ultimately requires the employ of C++ for extension modules, certainly, but a surprising amount of the game itself can be written in Python.

Quote:Original post by Oluseyi
Second, the assertion that Python is only good for "little games" that "do not demand that much CPU power"

If that's true someone should email the Eve Online guys quick before their (stackless) python powered servers fall over!