Sorry, I was not real clear.
What I meant by focusing more on character and the environment was this. If your game is going to be short and fast you won't have much time for story. So players will become most familiar with the "character" and the general "environment." With that said I am suggesting you give the character a lot to work with to make him memorable and make the environments just as interesting.
Micro-Shooter idea
There are two absurdly easy ways to make a shooter replayable: over-the-top kills and over-the-top death. It becomes about how ridiculously you can stage either of those scenarios, and if you can export them as mini movies to share with your friends (who don't have to own the game), all the better!
It's kind of the secret of N (which is not a shooter): there are quite a few clips on YouTube of people performing gaming suicide because the death animations and physics amuse them so much!
It's kind of the secret of N (which is not a shooter): there are quite a few clips on YouTube of people performing gaming suicide because the death animations and physics amuse them so much!
Author
Oluseyi:
Well that's true.. certainly concentrating on making stuff really over the top will make the game that much more fun. I think that is part of Burnout's appeal.
I tried searching on youtube/google videos but it didn't seem to throw out any results that seemed relevant... would you happen to have any direct links to demonstrate?
I also have a liking for ideas that serve to virally spread word of a game... something like the movie replays sounds very interesting.
I'm not sure how easy it would be to get variation in kills in a top down shooter though, it strikes me as something that would be more easily done in a 3d game. In a top down shooter, it would be difficult to distinguish a successful headshot for example, because the z axis is relatively useless. I'm not saying it's impossible though... just that I think it would require a lot more thought.
Dasubermechen:
Right, I understand a bit better now. I kind of took that as a given really. If each segment of gampeplay is short, it certainly would need to provide lots of options and depth within that short timeframe, or it defies the point. So yes, I agree the environment and character both need a lot of depth and detail. I wonder if maybe with such small gameplay segments one option would be to go a little overboard with the physical modelling and have a lot of depth in the gameplay through the physics?
I do still think a bit of storyline would be good though to tie it all together... I see this idea as something along the lines of getting to act out the action scenes in a movie, with a little story between each segment (though not to the extent of something like an interactive movie!)
Cheers,
Steve
Well that's true.. certainly concentrating on making stuff really over the top will make the game that much more fun. I think that is part of Burnout's appeal.
I tried searching on youtube/google videos but it didn't seem to throw out any results that seemed relevant... would you happen to have any direct links to demonstrate?
I also have a liking for ideas that serve to virally spread word of a game... something like the movie replays sounds very interesting.
I'm not sure how easy it would be to get variation in kills in a top down shooter though, it strikes me as something that would be more easily done in a 3d game. In a top down shooter, it would be difficult to distinguish a successful headshot for example, because the z axis is relatively useless. I'm not saying it's impossible though... just that I think it would require a lot more thought.
Dasubermechen:
Right, I understand a bit better now. I kind of took that as a given really. If each segment of gampeplay is short, it certainly would need to provide lots of options and depth within that short timeframe, or it defies the point. So yes, I agree the environment and character both need a lot of depth and detail. I wonder if maybe with such small gameplay segments one option would be to go a little overboard with the physical modelling and have a lot of depth in the gameplay through the physics?
I do still think a bit of storyline would be good though to tie it all together... I see this idea as something along the lines of getting to act out the action scenes in a movie, with a little story between each segment (though not to the extent of something like an interactive movie!)
Cheers,
Steve
Top-down shooters are a bit touchy. They're either absurdly good or underwhelmingly mediocre.
Some examples of games that did it right:
- Commando (good for its time)
- MERCs (sequal to Commando, and vastly superior)
- Grand Theft Auto
- Grand Theft Auto 2
- APB (still one of the best games ever made, in my opinion)
With the exception of the GTA series, the games I've rattled off are on-rails, more or less, but that doesn't stop you from enjoying them. If you're looking for sandbox variety, you'll probably end up with a game that feels rushed. If you're not looking to make it commercial, that's fine. Even GTA has touchy controls (at best).
And if you'd like to add randomly generated content (dungeons, cities, missions, etc), beware of the pitfalls that most roguelikes fall into (such as Izuna and the ilk). You already stated that it could cause repetitiveness, and I whole-heartedly agree.
What I would recommend is, find one central aspect of the game that you want to develop the most, and focus on that. Using APB as an example, it's a top-down shooter skinned as a police game. The control scheme was pretty slick, and they used humor to keep you hooked. I'd like to see someone do a follow-up on that where the driving is like GTA's or RC Pro-Am - free to move about a city.
But regardless of what you do, focus on a central gameplay element. You've already stated that you want bite-sized gameplay sessions. Aside from saying it, there really isn't a whole lot more to do with it other than stream-lining your missions to meet the goal. It's time to pick the focus of the game.
Some examples of games that did it right:
- Commando (good for its time)
- MERCs (sequal to Commando, and vastly superior)
- Grand Theft Auto
- Grand Theft Auto 2
- APB (still one of the best games ever made, in my opinion)
With the exception of the GTA series, the games I've rattled off are on-rails, more or less, but that doesn't stop you from enjoying them. If you're looking for sandbox variety, you'll probably end up with a game that feels rushed. If you're not looking to make it commercial, that's fine. Even GTA has touchy controls (at best).
And if you'd like to add randomly generated content (dungeons, cities, missions, etc), beware of the pitfalls that most roguelikes fall into (such as Izuna and the ilk). You already stated that it could cause repetitiveness, and I whole-heartedly agree.
What I would recommend is, find one central aspect of the game that you want to develop the most, and focus on that. Using APB as an example, it's a top-down shooter skinned as a police game. The control scheme was pretty slick, and they used humor to keep you hooked. I'd like to see someone do a follow-up on that where the driving is like GTA's or RC Pro-Am - free to move about a city.
But regardless of what you do, focus on a central gameplay element. You've already stated that you want bite-sized gameplay sessions. Aside from saying it, there really isn't a whole lot more to do with it other than stream-lining your missions to meet the goal. It's time to pick the focus of the game.
Scrolling Shooters (AKA: STGs or SHMUPS) are a tiny yet dedicated hardcore nitche market, this is true to some extent inside Japan as well (the vast majority of Japanese STGs/SHMUPS are developed by Dojin software companies). Most western gamers and (and by most postings here) developers simply don't understand the genre. You can make money in the genre, but not by following most of the advice found in this forum.
A decade ago cult favorite Japanese developer treasure dropped Radiant Silvergun into Japanese arcades. It gave players seven different and usefull weapons controlled through the combination of three different fire buttons. There were no power-ups, there were no weapon shops, players had all seven weapons from the start. The game was a big hit and the genre has been inspired by it ever sense.
Treasure later released Ikaruga in 2001, a spiritual successor to Radiant silvergun. In Ikaruga players could switch colors faceing a horde of black or white ships. When black, players can absorb the black bullets but do double damage to white enemies. Switching to white allows the same abilities with white bullets and double damage to black enemies. The more bullets you absorb, the more powerful you become, allowing you to fire a special weapon. Additionaly there is a "chaining" score mechanisam where destroying three same colored enemies within a certain time yelds score bonuses. It's a very simple mechanic, but it makes for a very challengeing and even stratigic game.
Along with the arcade games of Psiyko, Cave, and R8zing with thier introduction of bullet hell or bullet curtain style games. The genre has seen a renewed intrest and lots of innovation over the last 15 years.
However, even in Japan, its still largely a nitche market now mostly dominated by Dojin software developers. ZUN of Team Shanghai Alice and Siter Skain are famous in STG/SHMUP fandom for thier PC games like Perfect Cherry Blossoms and Kamui. To really get sales you will need to localize for the Japanese market (where most of your target audiance is), getting attention on Dojin portals. Developer SideQuest Studios has its sights set in this area with thier game Söldner-X: Himmelsstürmer available on Hong Kong basied play-asia.com.
But if your not already a big fan of the genre (obviously not, as you are seeking advice here on GameDev rather than the STG/SHMUP development sites out there like www.shmup-dev.com) then I strongly suggest you investigate the genre through sites like http://shootthecore.moonpod.com/. It should at least give you some inspiration for your own project, even if its not a scrolly shooter.
A decade ago cult favorite Japanese developer treasure dropped Radiant Silvergun into Japanese arcades. It gave players seven different and usefull weapons controlled through the combination of three different fire buttons. There were no power-ups, there were no weapon shops, players had all seven weapons from the start. The game was a big hit and the genre has been inspired by it ever sense.
Treasure later released Ikaruga in 2001, a spiritual successor to Radiant silvergun. In Ikaruga players could switch colors faceing a horde of black or white ships. When black, players can absorb the black bullets but do double damage to white enemies. Switching to white allows the same abilities with white bullets and double damage to black enemies. The more bullets you absorb, the more powerful you become, allowing you to fire a special weapon. Additionaly there is a "chaining" score mechanisam where destroying three same colored enemies within a certain time yelds score bonuses. It's a very simple mechanic, but it makes for a very challengeing and even stratigic game.
Along with the arcade games of Psiyko, Cave, and R8zing with thier introduction of bullet hell or bullet curtain style games. The genre has seen a renewed intrest and lots of innovation over the last 15 years.
However, even in Japan, its still largely a nitche market now mostly dominated by Dojin software developers. ZUN of Team Shanghai Alice and Siter Skain are famous in STG/SHMUP fandom for thier PC games like Perfect Cherry Blossoms and Kamui. To really get sales you will need to localize for the Japanese market (where most of your target audiance is), getting attention on Dojin portals. Developer SideQuest Studios has its sights set in this area with thier game Söldner-X: Himmelsstürmer available on Hong Kong basied play-asia.com.
But if your not already a big fan of the genre (obviously not, as you are seeking advice here on GameDev rather than the STG/SHMUP development sites out there like www.shmup-dev.com) then I strongly suggest you investigate the genre through sites like http://shootthecore.moonpod.com/. It should at least give you some inspiration for your own project, even if its not a scrolly shooter.
Quote:The replay value in Ikaruga (I assume as I have not played it) likely comes from tackling the same set patterns of enemies over and over more and more efficiently. The freeform gameplay I am suggesting is more like Grand Theft Auto... you aren't running on rails like a scrolling space shooter, you choose your own path and which enemies you take on, or run away from. You choose to accept side missions to make your main missions easier, or you just run in guns blazing on the main objective... it's up to you.
Then the replay value also comes from how well you achieve individual elements. Like something such as Guitar Hero, you could be graded for your performance on one of the micro-levels... providing the incentive to replay and up your score by perhaps achieving the objective a bit faster, killing more enemies, killing less civillians, getting a kill combo or whatever other incentives could be thought of.
This somewhat concerns me, because if you make the game extremely open-ended, perfection becomes more than just a matter of performing well, but also picking the right path. That is, you could be absolutely perfect choosing one path, but still get a lower score than a mildly experienced player in a more ideal path.
However, I think I know one way you could allow for both more or less freeform gameplay and perfection. Essentially, you just toss in several difficulty modes. Not to complicated. The rub is, instead of picking the mode from the start, the difficulty shifts mid-game based on player performance. I can't tell you how the difficulty should change, whether from scoring long combos, getting a power-up, automatically increasing until the player dies, or some other option of your choice, and for that matter whether the difficulty modes should be discreet (more enemies start appearing) or obvious (the player physically moves to another path), but it makes the ideal path fairly more obvious.
Needless to say, I feel that adding randomness can completely destroy any potential value to a high score system, by effectively reducing the score to a matter of luck.
Quote:There are two absurdly easy ways to make a shooter replayable: over-the-top kills and over-the-top death. It becomes about how ridiculously you can stage either of those scenarios, and if you can export them as mini movies to share with your friends (who don't have to own the game), all the better!
I actually get bored of death scenes easily. True, if the game's story were made heavily character-based, it would be a great pleasure to see how the baddies react to their own death, and for that matter the player's (I notice bad guys don't gloat nearly enough), but if every time I died I had to watch my ragdoll fly around the screen for three seconds before I regenerate I'd be a bit annoyed.
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