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, March 9, 2008 in Artificial Intelligence
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Quote:Original post by Sneftel Alright. Is it not intelligent?
Quote:Original post by owlI said intelligence, not AI.For AI we dont need to imagine much, there are plenty of game AIs that behave pretty intelligently. And we could say that they *are* intelligent to some degree. But if there was a scale to measure inteligence on how qualitatively and cuantitatively a being (artificial or not) organizes data, then bubble sort, your program and all the games AI's would be near ZERO and humans would be at the top.
Quote:Original post by owlI meant quality in a human sense. A poem expresing a human idea (with methaphors, paraboles, reminicenses), would be of higher quality than a bunch of sorted numbers.
Quote:Original post by RixterExcept isn't that like saying an encyclopedia is intelligence?
Quote:Original post by RixterI would be more inclined to say it's the producing of the solution that is intelligence, not the solution itself.
Quote:I would consider skill and creativity to be more attributes of intelligence
Quote:Perhaps our definition of search is different as well.
Quote:As you said, one does not need to know how to do something for AI techniques to work, and sometimes not even the end goal. Wouldn't that require some form of search? Wouldn't even the wiring and re-wiring of our brain be a form of search? I don't know.
Quote:Original post by alvaroQuote:Original post by AngleWyrmThis brings up an interesting point: What exactly is a free choice? Is selecting the best option a free choice, or is it simply an optimized relationship to the environment? Is choosing randomly from a probability distribution of personal biases over the options a free choice?We have a pretty hardwired dualistic view of the world, where all objects obey the laws of physics, but some seem to have "souls", or "behaviour". This gives us an illusion of free will that probably has nothing to do with how the world really works, but it's a powerful metaphor that helps us understand and predict events around us. I don't think this illusion has to necessarily be present in an agent to be able to call it intelligent. It's just a byproduct of the way we are implemented.
Quote:Original post by AngleWyrmThis brings up an interesting point: What exactly is a free choice? Is selecting the best option a free choice, or is it simply an optimized relationship to the environment? Is choosing randomly from a probability distribution of personal biases over the options a free choice?
Quote:Original post by SneftelThis is why coming up with a definition of "intelligence" is useless unless you (a) have a need to objectively define a metric of intelligence, (b) have an objective test to determine whether a given metric is accurate, and (c) are willing to have that metric disagree with you and tell you that you're wrong about something being intelligent or not intelligent. Under any other set of circumstances, it's all just semantic flailing.
Quote:Original post by owl* Is social?* Has language?* Uses tools?* Builds tools?* Is adaptable?
Quote:Original post by TimkinQuote:Original post by RixterExcept isn't that like saying an encyclopedia is intelligence?No, an encyclopedia is a collection of information (pages in a book, or in the digital age usually an electronic database + interface).
Quote:Original post by DaeraxNo one really knows what free choice is. However alvaro is what a philosopher would call a Hard Determinist. Which may or may not be a correct stance but in my opinion is not very likely. Although I doubt he would agree with the other baggage a typical hard determinist would carry - such as a lack of a belief in the notion of moral responsibility.
Quote:Original post by AngleWyrmQuote:Original post by TimkinQuote:Original post by RixterExcept isn't that like saying an encyclopedia is intelligence?No, an encyclopedia is a collection of information (pages in a book, or in the digital age usually an electronic database + interface).There was an anti-B.F.Skinner argument called the Chinese Room:Inside the room is a person who does not know how to read Chinese. Outside, a man who does know how writes a note and slips it under the door. Inside, the illiterate man has warehouse of symbol look-up tables that show response strings for various sequences. The illiterate person simply compares symbols and transcribes the response sequences and passes a note back. So even though the guy on the outside is having a conversation, the guy on the inside is totally oblivious.If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck...It might be just the thing to take duck hunting.But why stop at low-flying duck resolution: What if it looks, sounds, smells, feels, and tastes like a duck to the limits of the human senses? I might have bought a package of that at the store the other day.
Quote:Original post by RixterI've heard the Chinese Room argument before, but is it the room + data that's intelligent? Or is it the room + data + guy using data that's intelligent? I think data (knowledge), representation, and solutions are great and all, but I believe it's the construction and use of these that is the intelligence.
Quote:Original post by animatorI think we will only have true AI when a computer has the same number of processors (CPUS) as there are in the human brain.
Quote:Since a brain has about 100,000,000,000 neurons. And right now computers have about 2-4 CPUs then according to Moore's law, the number of processors should double every to two years, we should have true artificial intelligence by....April 2008 + 2 * log_2(100,000,000,000/4) years = May 2077By which time I will be in to my 90's.
Quote:But seeing as neurons are much slower than CPUs it might be sooner. For example eye neurons work about 100 frames a second which is 100Hz. So a 1GHz CPU can model about 10,000,000 neurons. Then we only need 10,000 CPUs and this will take:April 2008 + 2 * log_2(10,000/4) years = Nov 2030where I will be about 50 so that's not too bad.
Quote:The Stuff of Thought, page 6, by Steven Pinker"...language is saturated with implicit metaphors like EVENTS ARE OBJECTS and TIME IS SPACE. Indeed, space turns out to be a conceptual vehicle not just for time but for many kinds of states and circumstances. Just as a meeting can be moved from 3:00 to 4:00, a traffic light can go from green to red, a person can go from flipping burgers to running a corporation, and the economy can go form bad to worse. Metaphor is so widespread in language that it's hard to find expressions for abstract ideas that are not metaphorical. What does the concreteness of language say about human thought? Does it imply that even our wispiest concepts are represented in the mind as hunks of matter that we move around on a mental stage? Does it say that rival claims about the world can never be true or false but can only be alternative metaphors that frame a situation in different ways?"
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