I think you need to focus your attempt and organize it better. For example if you want to brain storm about avatar advancement than list all of the previously used methods. You will quickly have a list of possibilities that would far exceed an equal amount of time trying to create a system from nothing. It also provides you with a potential experience to work off of as opposed to a theoretical position. Trying to brainstorm MMO is pointless IMO unless you want to pbrainstorm far more vague concepts than the ones you listed. If you want to do that I would start by writing a 2 page essay on the design differences between WOW and EVE.

It is highly unlikely that you are going to think of something exceptionly new on your first time out. A MMO meanwhile is so complex and has so many different parts that any attempt at completely redesigning it would take a huge amount of time and testing. It is far better to refine as opposed to re-invent.

There may be specific parts of MMO design that interest you that you want to re-invent but choose wisely.

If you want something really new like a MMORTS than I would still work off of a well defined base. Whether it is traditional MMORPG mechanics or traditional RTS mechanics.

In defense of list-making as a design technique:

It is true that lists can stifle creativity if not used carefully. On the other hand lists are a good tool for organizing the results of research and brainstorming, and may help you identify holes where you have forgotten to research, brainstorm, or make a decision. I believe the key to using lists without being limited by them is to alternate list phases with research/brainstorming phases, and start your design process with one of the research/brainstorming phases.

How exactly do lists stifle creativity? In 2 ways: the structure of the list itself including category labels, and neglecting to look for alternatives once you have filled a category.

So a good way to use lists in your design process is:

1. For each MMO you have played, make a list of all its major features, with a detailed description of how each works. Do not try to use the same list structure for all games, just record what you find. If any entry makes you think of an alternative, write that down too.

2. Write down any features you have been inspired to put in your game, not attempting to organize them in any way.

3. Now looking at all your lists side by side, identify all the categories such as monetary units, gathering, crafting, quests, pve combat, pvp combat, marketplace, puzzles, etc. This is now your blank master list. Setting aside your previous research and brainstorming, free brainstorm for each category. Add your research and previous brainstorming back in. If possible gather other people's ideas and let them provide additional research from games you haven't played.

4. Finally, cross off alternatives that you don't like, and wherever you have more than one alternative remaining in a category decide whether you can include both in the game, make a hybrid of the two, or if you can only have one, which is the better choice.

Quote:Original post by Kylotan
I remain unconvinced as to how enumerating a list of clichés helps anybody. If you truly have a great idea to change something, then it's a great idea, regardless of what anybody lists here. If typing these things out makes you happy though, feel free.

When was it stated that this list will be used in his designs? I think you are missing the obvious use of such lists. If he truly has a design in mind, then he obviously doesn't need the lists to lead him to a design. More likely, he wants the lists as a bar to measure against.

An MMO (or MMORPG if you are anal) is not an easy thing to design, despite what many budding designers seem to think. In fact, without trying to offend any of the amazing few who have actually made a hobbyist one, I would wager that they weren't truly "designed," rather they were programmed. What I mean by this is that the games were built from the tech/programming standpoint, rather than designed first, and programmed to meet the requirements.

Either way Chocolate Milk wants to proceed, whether he is a designer or a programmer, a list can help him keep track of his design, whether it is similar or dissimilar to the design elements comprising the list(s).

Doh, half way through posting, I noticed Humble Hobo and sunandshadow already touched on this.

Now, as Hollower already points out, I've compiled quite a lot of links regarding MMO design. Do I use these in my designs? Certainly, but not to copy. In fact, as has been suggested, I use them as a list of things not to do, for the most part. Anyone who thinks that they can design an MMO by themselves is going to need help, and there is no other place to find it than an expensive book, or by combing the internet for resources. The former I would rather not do, but the latter I have already done (and continue to do). I have amassed over 400 bookmarks regarding PW since it started. Of course, not all have to do with design, but the point is, I am always looking for inspiration.

What do you do to be inspiried? I, myself, read and play old games that have something I want to see in action. Occasionally I will try a current MMO to look at a particular mechanic in action, but this is rare. I usually just read about them.

Quote:Original post by Kylotan
The fact that people are arguing for the hypothetical benefits of such a list, while not seeing fit to help provide one, seems to support my position. Let's see it, and let's see how it helps in this particular case, referring back to the original post.

I created a relatively basic breakdown of known actions(attacks) and their various components. I ended up with 8 categories all with around 6+ different factors in each category. All of this ends up being in an excel worksheet to organize it at all. This is just one part of a much larger task of what makes an MMO. Such a list would be a huge undertaking.

So as I said before, such a list needs to be organized and focused into a particular area.

A list simply organizes the process most people do internally which is to pull from our past experiences. With MMO development, especially if it is being done by a group of designers, organization of ideas will be a critical part of your design process, as is the act of borrowing from already established ideas.

Once these ideas are organized it is much easier to brainstorm ideas about what new things can be done because you are far more familiar with what has been done.

Quote:Original post by Kylotan
The fact that people are arguing for the hypothetical benefits of such a list, while not seeing fit to help provide one, seems to support my position. Let's see it, and let's see how it helps in this particular case, referring back to the original post.

Hollower already linked to a thread where I listed a bunch of resources where the OP could create his own list. He asked for resources and was given them. Are you suggesting that we create a list for him? If so, you are as good a candidate as any to make it. Why would we create a list for him when we know nothing about the game he wants to design? It's up to the designers to create their own lists for their own games. I've got all sorts of resources compiled on a private wiki, but that pertains to the game I am designing, not the one he is designing.