[.net] Some Excellent Points
Author
First, C# is a form of Java, ActionScript, ...or some GC capable VM, but they give the VM a different name, .NET Framework...with many services applicable to Windows platform...anyway...no that interesting
What's the best bet to develop a graphics application using C#:
OpenGL (only 3rd party unreliable wrappers available)
DirectX (not any more supported as managed)
GDI+ (not capable enough as a 3D accelerated)
Hmmmmmm then what?
Is it a dead-end choice to choose this .NET for a graphics application?
Besides the GUI sucks under .NET, it sucks like crap.
Each and one more thing...please C# designers, do we have to say REF to pass an argument by reference? Why then arrays are passed by reference? Cannot be more consistent?
Complete and utter nonsense.
How on earth can you talk about graphics development with c# and not mention Xna?
UI development in .net does not suck by any measure. If you think it does, try developing a UI using win32 in c++, then try to say that again.
You only need to use the ref keyword to pass a value type by reference, which to me is perfectly sensible and reasonable.
Sorry, but your understanding of this stuff is fundamentally flawed. Either that or you're just trolling. Maybe a little of both?
How on earth can you talk about graphics development with c# and not mention Xna?
UI development in .net does not suck by any measure. If you think it does, try developing a UI using win32 in c++, then try to say that again.
You only need to use the ref keyword to pass a value type by reference, which to me is perfectly sensible and reasonable.
Sorry, but your understanding of this stuff is fundamentally flawed. Either that or you're just trolling. Maybe a little of both?
Author
Sorry but u mentioned XNA?
I though that was designed for gaming and XBox360 not for CAD applicaitons.
One more thing "By default, parameters are passed by value, which means that the variable's stack data is copied into the target parameter" - Essential C# 2.0 Text Book.
And......yeah do you expect ppl using this software to install XNA first, Jeeeezzzzze give me a break?
I though that was designed for gaming and XBox360 not for CAD applicaitons.
One more thing "By default, parameters are passed by value, which means that the variable's stack data is copied into the target parameter" - Essential C# 2.0 Text Book.
And......yeah do you expect ppl using this software to install XNA first, Jeeeezzzzze give me a break?
In fact, there's no reason you couldn't use Xna to develop a CAD application. You don't need to use Xna's high level features like the Game class or the content pipeline. You can use it at the same level as Direct3D: initialising the graphics device manually using a windows form.
Xna isn't "for the xbox 360". It just happens to be cross platform. There's many people, such as myself, who develop windows-only applications for it using winforms. To me, the ability to port to the 360 is just icing on the cake.
I don't think Xna has reached the point where it can totally replace mdx, but it's getting there. I'm looking forward to them adding more to it's windows-only api, such as the ability to load meshes and spritefonts without the content pipeline. Then it'll be perfect.
That's a fine quote, but I've never read that book, and don't know the context it was taken from, so can't speak for it. All I know is that the data in a value type is copied from one to another, unless you use the ref keyword. Whereas with reference type, only the reference is copied. Choose to make an object a value or reference type depending on the situation.
[Edited by - gharen2 on March 22, 2008 12:34:31 AM]
Xna isn't "for the xbox 360". It just happens to be cross platform. There's many people, such as myself, who develop windows-only applications for it using winforms. To me, the ability to port to the 360 is just icing on the cake.
I don't think Xna has reached the point where it can totally replace mdx, but it's getting there. I'm looking forward to them adding more to it's windows-only api, such as the ability to load meshes and spritefonts without the content pipeline. Then it'll be perfect.
That's a fine quote, but I've never read that book, and don't know the context it was taken from, so can't speak for it. All I know is that the data in a value type is copied from one to another, unless you use the ref keyword. Whereas with reference type, only the reference is copied. Choose to make an object a value or reference type depending on the situation.
[Edited by - gharen2 on March 22, 2008 12:34:31 AM]
Quote:Original post by gharen2
Xna isn't "for the xbox 360". It just happens to be cross platform. There's many people, such as myself, who develop windows-only applications for it using winforms. To me, the ability to port to the 360 is just icing on the cake.
I'm in the same boat. I have no 360, I don't care about developing games for the 360, and I don't plan on releasing my applications on the 360. Just because XNA works with the 360 it doesn't mean it is FOR the 360.
But yup, this original post does seem to be very ignorant or just flame-baiting.
Quote:Original post by HugosHoH
Each and one more thing...please C# designers, do we have to say REF to pass an argument by reference? Why then arrays are passed by reference? Cannot be more consistent?
Because Arrays are reference types, and really they aren't treated any different than value types when they are passed, it's just a side effect of the fact that reference type variables are references.
Quote:Original post by HugosHoH
One more thing "By default, parameters are passed by value, which means that the variable's stack data is copied into the target parameter" - Essential C# 2.0 Text Book.
True enough, but "variables of a reference type store references to their data,"1 so when you pass a reference type by value the reference is copied, not the data which it references.
1. §1.3, The C# Programming Language, Second Edition.
This is a horribly misinformed post. It's things like this that give beginners bad impressions that are completely unfounded, and end up causing all sorts of problems in the future.
1) C# is NOT a form a Java or ActionScript. It IS similar to Java in some of its paradigms and its syntax, but overall it is a completely different beast, and the two languages are moving away from each with each successive release.
2) GDI+, while not AS capable as a 3D API, can still be used to develop graphical applications. People do it all the time. In fact, it has a very nice API, and if you know how to use it you can pull some great stuff off. Just don't expect it to product the next AAA 3D game, and you will be fine.
3) While MDX IS deprecated, there are still a few alternatives. First, as many people here have already mentioned, you can use XNA, which not only runs on Windows, but XBox360 as well! I know of no other language that provides you with such options. And if you really can't stomach XNA for your PC editor tools, you can always go with SlimDX, which is a very nice replacement library for MDX.
4) The GUI for .NET is one of the best in existence. Period. The well-thought out API, added with a very professional implementation and one of the greatest GUI designers on the planet (Visual Studio), and you get one hell of a GUI toolkit to develop business applications. And if the output isn't fancy enough for you, you can dip into Silverlight for web applications or WPF for local, highly stylized applications.
5) I think the problem here is NOT the C# designers, who were incredibly intelligent people. The problem here is that you don't understand a fundamental programming concept; that is, you don't understand the differences between a value type and a reference type. I would go on to explain them to you, but I don't think you would listen anyway. Oh, and for the record, in C++ if you want to pass an argument by reference you need the '&' symbol. Now which is more intuitive?
1) C# is NOT a form a Java or ActionScript. It IS similar to Java in some of its paradigms and its syntax, but overall it is a completely different beast, and the two languages are moving away from each with each successive release.
2) GDI+, while not AS capable as a 3D API, can still be used to develop graphical applications. People do it all the time. In fact, it has a very nice API, and if you know how to use it you can pull some great stuff off. Just don't expect it to product the next AAA 3D game, and you will be fine.
3) While MDX IS deprecated, there are still a few alternatives. First, as many people here have already mentioned, you can use XNA, which not only runs on Windows, but XBox360 as well! I know of no other language that provides you with such options. And if you really can't stomach XNA for your PC editor tools, you can always go with SlimDX, which is a very nice replacement library for MDX.
4) The GUI for .NET is one of the best in existence. Period. The well-thought out API, added with a very professional implementation and one of the greatest GUI designers on the planet (Visual Studio), and you get one hell of a GUI toolkit to develop business applications. And if the output isn't fancy enough for you, you can dip into Silverlight for web applications or WPF for local, highly stylized applications.
5) I think the problem here is NOT the C# designers, who were incredibly intelligent people. The problem here is that you don't understand a fundamental programming concept; that is, you don't understand the differences between a value type and a reference type. I would go on to explain them to you, but I don't think you would listen anyway. Oh, and for the record, in C++ if you want to pass an argument by reference you need the '&' symbol. Now which is more intuitive?
This guy is just a troll, ignore him. Second post of his in my first five minutes of browsing the forums I've found trolling about nonsense he clearly has no idea about.
Nothing to see here, move along.
Nothing to see here, move along.
Wow, just wow.
How about you learn just a little bit about the C# language before you open your mouth and insert your foot.
In C# structs and value types are pass by value, classes are passed by reference. It is very consistent, it just so happens that arrays are fricken classes.
My first three applications I did in XNA had nothing to do with games. The last one I made was for designing houses using pre-made panels. So I would say it was a CAD application. The reality is that any graphics library that can handle gaming, can handle any CAD application YOU can develop.
So either you are trying to start trouble or you are sadly misinformed.
theTroll
How about you learn just a little bit about the C# language before you open your mouth and insert your foot.
In C# structs and value types are pass by value, classes are passed by reference. It is very consistent, it just so happens that arrays are fricken classes.
My first three applications I did in XNA had nothing to do with games. The last one I made was for designing houses using pre-made panels. So I would say it was a CAD application. The reality is that any graphics library that can handle gaming, can handle any CAD application YOU can develop.
So either you are trying to start trouble or you are sadly misinformed.
theTroll
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