Interested in starting hobby electronics "stuff"... don't know where to start
On the topic of fpga (sorry to steal your thread!) anyone know what would be the minimum fpga to buy (if any) that would be big enought to support some kind of X86? And are there any open source x86-ish implementations that could be synthetised directly on it? Wondering because i'd like to get into fpga , but only if this is so , and i saw x86 cores on opencores but i'm totally clueless as to wether it's possible to stick on a fpga or if i need a specific brand or what.
Quote:Original post by ranakor
On the topic of fpga (sorry to steal your thread!) anyone know what would be the minimum fpga to buy (if any) that would be big enought to support some kind of X86? And are there any open source x86-ish implementations that could be synthetised directly on it? Wondering because i'd like to get into fpga , but only if this is so , and i saw x86 cores on opencores but i'm totally clueless as to wether it's possible to stick on a fpga or if i need a specific brand or what.
What changes do you want to make to the x86 core? If you're not making any changes then I have good news for you!
It will be cheaper to simply BUY an x86 processor, not only that, but it will be far faster than something you can run on an FPGA chip too.
I would recommend staying away from FPGAs initially. They're useful and easy to pick up, but they won't teach you electronics, and you'll be spending most of your time "coding" in VHDL or Verilog.
I'd say learn how to use 74xxx TTL (or TTL-compatible CMOS, like 74HC, 74HCT, etc.) logic first. It's digital and easy to work with. Look up some circuits on line and learn to use a 5V regulator (such as the 7805) to get yourself a stable 5V supply from a 9V battery source (or even better, a wall plug AC-DC adapter from the 14V-20V range.)
There are some nifty things you can do with op amps as well, or comparators, potentiometers, phototransistors, and IR LEDs :)
I'd say learn how to use 74xxx TTL (or TTL-compatible CMOS, like 74HC, 74HCT, etc.) logic first. It's digital and easy to work with. Look up some circuits on line and learn to use a 5V regulator (such as the 7805) to get yourself a stable 5V supply from a 9V battery source (or even better, a wall plug AC-DC adapter from the 14V-20V range.)
There are some nifty things you can do with op amps as well, or comparators, potentiometers, phototransistors, and IR LEDs :)
Quote:Original post by trzy
I would recommend staying away from FPGAs initially. They're useful and easy to pick up, but they won't teach you electronics, and you'll be spending most of your time "coding" in VHDL or Verilog.
I'd say learn how to use 74xxx TTL (or TTL-compatible CMOS, like 74HC, 74HCT, etc.) logic first. It's digital and easy to work with. Look up some circuits on line and learn to use a 5V regulator (such as the 7805) to get yourself a stable 5V supply from a 9V battery source (or even better, a wall plug AC-DC adapter from the 14V-20V range.)
There are some nifty things you can do with op amps as well, or comparators, potentiometers, phototransistors, and IR LEDs :)
True, but I guess one way FPGA can teach you about electronics is if you force yourself to code everything in structural (list out all the gates and their connections explicitly or the logic equations).
Example from my digital logic class final project just last quarter, down counter with parallal load in and stops at 0:
module counterammo(qD, qC , qB, qA, clk, rst, enable, gs, dA, dB, dC, dD); input clk, rst, enable, gs, dA, dB, dC, dD; output qD, qC, qB, qA; DFlipFlop df4(qA, qBarA, qA&~enable | dA&~gs| B&(qBarA|qC|qD)&gs&enable, clk, rst); DFlipFlop df3(qB, qBarB, qB&~enable | dB&~gs| (qB&qD|qB&qC|qA&qBarB&qBarC&qBarD)&gs&enable, clk, rst); DFlipFlop df2(qC, qBarC, qC&~enable | dC&~gs| (qC&qD|qA&qBarC&qBarD|qB&qBarC&qBarD)&gs&enable, clk, rst); DFlipFlop df1(qD, qBarD, qD&~enable | dD&~gs| (qC&qBarD|qA&qBarC&qBarD|qB&qBarC&qBarD)&gs&enable, clk, rst);endmodulevs behavioral code
module DFlipFlop(q, qBar, D, clk, rst); input D, clk, rst; output q, qBar; reg q; not n1 (qBar, q); always@ (posedge rst or posedge clk) begin if(rst) q = 0; else q = D; endendmoduleThe biggest reason for recommending the FPGA dev kit is because I'm assuming there is no access to an oscilloscope.
If access to an o-scope is possible then the obvious cheaper route is to stock up on 74XX## chips, breadboards, and wire. Of course it's possible to build cool circuits without an o-scope but it makes debugging a lot easier if you have one.
A wall plug is an excellent idea but you'll have to buy the socket or figure out a way to connect that power to the breadboard. Additionally, watch for how much current your circuit draws since adjustable wall plugs start becoming more expensive the higher their current rating.
As for op-amps and comparators, make sure you get both. Although you can build comparators out of op-amps, its a pain. Also I'ld recommend getting a bunch of 555 chips, there's quite a bit of interesting circuits out there built around the 555 timer chip.
If you want a cheap oscilliscope, check out picotech's pc-based oscilliscopes (the 2000 series are probably best for hobbies); PicoScope 2000
Also, I think the PicAxe is a brilliant way to get into electronics - there's a lot of sites that have starter kits - including a robot kit (which i guess is more for programming than electronics). I've mode a few robots, and a NimH battery charger with pics - they're lots of fun.
Wyzfen
ps : I work for PicoTech - I write the software.
[Edited by - Wyzfen on April 3, 2008 2:43:48 PM]
Also, I think the PicAxe is a brilliant way to get into electronics - there's a lot of sites that have starter kits - including a robot kit (which i guess is more for programming than electronics). I've mode a few robots, and a NimH battery charger with pics - they're lots of fun.
Wyzfen
ps : I work for PicoTech - I write the software.
[Edited by - Wyzfen on April 3, 2008 2:43:48 PM]
Author
Quote:Original post by Wyzfen
If you want a cheap oscilliscope, check out picotech's pc-based oscilliscopes (the 2000 series are probably best for hobbies);
http://www.picotech.com/picoscope2000.html
Wyzfen
ps : yes, I work for PicoTech - I write the software.
Not quite my idea of cheap, saddly ;)
Quote:Original post by CyclesQuote:Original post by Wyzfen
If you want a cheap oscilliscope, check out picotech's pc-based oscilliscopes (the 2000 series are probably best for hobbies);
http://www.picotech.com/picoscope2000.html
Wyzfen
ps : yes, I work for PicoTech - I write the software.
Not quite my idea of cheap, saddly ;)
Heh. Before I started working here, I was looking for an oscilliscope, and they came up as the cheapest I could find ... didnt buy one tho, as I was just a student at the time, and even cheap was too expensive.
Wyzfen
If you wish to carry out very basic analysis of an AC signal, you can use a sound-card based oscilloscope. Any low frequency signals will be lost (they're useless for DC), and the sample rate isn't all that good, but you can hardly complain about the price. Even basic sound editing software can be useful.
Hugely inferior to a "proper" oscilloscope, of course, but they weigh rather heavily on the pocket...
Hugely inferior to a "proper" oscilloscope, of course, but they weigh rather heavily on the pocket...
Check out ebay for cheap oscilloscopes; you will want at least 2 channels regardless of bandwidth.
Stay away from soundcard scopes, one wrong connection and there goes the card or even worse...
Stay away from soundcard scopes, one wrong connection and there goes the card or even worse...
Author
Well, I have no need for an oscilloscope atm, I don't think - so next time I get some money (guessing that's gonna be a week or two) I'll buy a couple of kits, breadboards and try and take some books out from the library and kick this off :)
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