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Raghar

Bethesda and Fallout 3 analysis thread.

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Bad news about Fallout are Bethesda looks like they are making it as yet another (more complex) shooter. So because it's too late, and this thread can't be used to correct Fallout problems (Nobody would like to do solve Bethesda problems for Bethesda, its theirs right to crash theirs face into the dirt at full speed.), lets discus all design problems, theirs reasons, and where things went wrong. First lets look at the VATS system, from what they are saying the are fiddling with AP regeneration. The problem is, when system is properly designed, the AP regeneration (when the system requires an AP regeneration) would be clear somewhat automatically. From what I can see, Bethesda has yet again problem called design of a RPG system, and its modification. It might be fun to see if they could compete with FF XIII system design. It's your turn to continue with nitpicking and game analysis. Materials allowed are Internet forums, speeches of Bethesda developers, reliable computer magazines sites. Hacking into Bethesda computers is disallowed because theirs code is in flux, and it would be unreliable source.

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Ouija boards, astrology, augary, tarot cards, crystal balls, examining the entrails of slaughtered animals, casting objects into liquids (often wooden rods, stones or molten metal), numerology, dream interpretation, pyromancy, I Ching, arrow casting or symbol drawing. I suppose you could try divination by Feng Shui or palm reading, but it'd be difficult to apply to software.

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Quote:
Original post by Raghar
It's your turn to continue with nitpicking and game analysis. Materials allowed are Internet forums, speeches of Bethesda developers, reliable computer magazines sites. Hacking into Bethesda computers is disallowed because theirs code is in flux, and it would be unreliable source.


And making up stuff isn't "an unreliable source"?

No, it's not out turns to nitpick. It's Bethesda's turn to deliver.

I have plenty of doubts about whether they can pull it off, but unlike you, I don't pretend to know what the game is going to be like.

Ironically, the only specific complaint you mention (the VATS system) is one of those I'm not too worried about. There's plenty they can do to ruin the game, but that particular feature looks reasonably solid, and, well, it replaces something that wasn't that amazing in the first place. (Come on, did you play Fallout for the exciting and dramatic battles? The combat system had some interesting features, most of which still exist in Bethesda's VATS system, but apart from that, it was slooooow and clumsy and not very intuitive)

Leave the blind Fallout bashing to the people at NMA. They're better at it. They've had most of a decade to practice.

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Original post by lightbringer
Why don't we wait for the game to be actually released before bashing it?


QFT. The idea of having an "analysis" thread before the game is even released is laughable. The game's not even in beta yet.

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Fallout was perfect. After that game everyone else put down their tools and are now just doing it as a hobby. As a matter of fact every other game is just an imitation of some element of Fallout. Since Fallout there's only been one good game, Fallout 2. I will sacrifice 100 USD in Bethesdas honor if they deliver.

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I actually loved Fallout's combat. There was plenty of room for extension and improvement, but not in the area Bethesda seems to believe. I definitely don't like the pause/unpause style of combat as much as the strategic tile/turn based combat in XCom: UFO or Fallout 1 and 2. It's unfortunate, but it seems that style of combat is too old-fashioned and unflashy for newer games.

My biggest concern, though, is that I'll be rapidly pressing keys to jump and fire weapons, and letting people beat me half to death in my favorite armor, to grow stronger. Oblivion had the absolute worst leveling system in the history of gaming. It's difficult to imagine them doing a complete 180.

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Original post by Nypyren
This is just my gut feeling, but I don't think it'll be enough like Fallout to appease the die-hard critics.


Well, for one thing, it will be in 3D :D

It's a given that people will find something to complain about once it comes out. No way can Bethesda live up to the idealized fantasy that die-hard fans have already created in their minds.

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Now the question is: Is possible to take a concept from TB combat sequential execution, and use it without consequences in a real time engine?
Because TB combat was only approximation, these action points were also approximations of a several different factors. One of these factors was amount of actions a character could do in one round, another was a speed of the character. At the end it worked fluidly. (kinda)

Now with real time + regeneration of action points it might look like:
1. A character sits as a duck, and wait for his VATS points.
2. A character moves around like crazy, and when VATS points regenerate completely he employs burst of actions.

Neither looks ideal, and the second alternative looks silly.

Quote:
Original post by Davion
Considering Fallout 3 isn't even out yet, how can you analyze their design decisions?


They released enough informations to analyze parts of the game. While it's obvious we can't say much about story, it's possible to talk about the important part of RPG, the RPG system.

Quote:
Original post by Sandman
Between NMA and Bethesda's own forums, I would have thought there are enough 'lets bash fallout 3' threads for one internet.

I didn't see much bashing on the NMA site. That few posts I seen sounded reasonable and talked about critical failures and negligible glitches.

If I wanted to bash the Bethesda, I'd use lounge, it's much more appropriate place for such behavior.

Quote:
Original post by Kest
I actually loved Fallout's combat. There was plenty of room for extension and improvement, but not in the area Bethesda seems to believe. I definitely don't like the pause/unpause style of combat as much as the strategic tile/turn based combat in XCom: UFO or Fallout 1 and 2. It's unfortunate, but it seems that style of combat is too old-fashioned and unflashy for newer games.

Turn based sequential execution combat might be cumbersome (when a lot of opponents shows up), as it's just an approximation of a real combat. On the other hand decisions mattered more than decisions in real time combat with pause. (FF X used form of a turn based sequential execution combat.)

Quote:
My biggest concern, though, is that I'll be rapidly pressing keys to jump and fire weapons, and letting people beat me half to death in my favorite armor, to grow stronger. Oblivion had the absolute worst leveling system in the history of gaming. It's difficult to imagine them doing a complete 180.

I doubt it. While Bethesda can't design RPG system if theirs live would depend upon, they are perfectly capable to copy other RPG system, and modify features at random. The only worry should be a possibility they kicked out some features and added few another features that damaged the system.

I'd be more worried about black and whiteness of the new game. Bethesda isn't exactly known for detailed, ambiguous stories, where neither side is the nice one.

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As much as I'm not exactly happy with Bethesda at this moment, I see no reason to start bashing the egg before it's hatched. Except, perhaps, to make an omelette, which admittedly sounds like a good idea, but a well cooked chicken is nicer.

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